Joco.mp3
Welcome to the average 90s gal podcast. Join me as I share my own journeys through life, how I got and continue to get through them, as well as real stories from real people in this crazy world. Let's get through it together. Hello friends, I hope you're doing well. I am very excited to share this episode, which is my very first guest episode where I am talking with my friend Jocko, who I have known for over 30 years. We talk about his life. We talk about career choices and career changes and everything that can lead you to your next chapter. It is a really great conversation and we also talk about high school. We just go into To so many different little paths and stories and everything, so I hope you'll enjoy it. There are a few audio issues, just little things that happened throughout because we were sitting in his living room just chatting with microphones on our shirts. So please I hope it isn't too annoying. Any of the audio issues that happen? Okay. Hi. Hi. Hi.
How's it going?
Good. You're my very first guest. I'm so excited.
Wait. Why? Why did everyone give me the idea that you've been doing this already?
Well, I have some episodes already.
Okay.
Published. That's why. But you're the very first guest, so everything else is solo.
You know, you're at my place, so you're technically the guest?
Yeah.
I'm just the.
Host. That's right, I we are in Jocko's living room, surrounded by his beautiful kitties, by the way. And So. Yeah. And the other day, I was thinking. I was trying to remember. We've been friends since my junior year of high school. Is that right?
Yeah. Maybe sophomore year, maybe a little.
Yeah, but we didn't actually become friends until junior year. Right? Okay. So 93. Right?
Yeah.
Okay. All right.
So.
For anyone listening. So we've known each other.
It's so long ago, you can't fact check it.
Yeah. That's right. So. Yeah. So one thing that I love to mention is what generation people are from, I like that. So can you tell everyone what generation obviously.
What letter it is. It's x. Is it x. Okay. It's Gen X I don't know.
And we went to high school together.
I mean technically I'm Gen X, but it's also like I have the mind of all the other generations wrapped up.
So yeah, go go forward with that. Keep going with that I don't know, what do you mean?
But, you know, I haven't grown up. I mean, I was just at a graduation last night and everyone's got kids and, like. And I'm just walking around like, hey, everyone.
Like Uncle Jocko.
Not even that. Like, I kept seeing, like, parents that I knew. Yeah, it's a big school. So I was like, wow, I'm the only one here who's not Chinese.
Oh, and yeah, and we are in the Bay area. And so once again, we went to high school together, Concord High School. And you have always lived in the Bay area, actually. You know, I feel as if I don't even know your entire story. So why don't we just go back a little bit? Yeah. So tell tell me, where were you born? How did you end up in the Bay area? Tell your whole family history because it's it's really.
Interesting.
Complex. I know as much as you want to go into it.
I'm not hiding anything. Yeah, as long as Trump doesn't hear it. Yeah. All right. I was born, as I was told, in Quezon City, Philippines. I was the fourth child of Mila and Carlos Ilidio, who were my actual parents at the time of my birth. My mother, who raised me, which was Nila's sister, Lita, she was in town visiting. She was already living in the United States in Treasure Island because she was married to a guy who was in the US Navy. I was the fourth child in 1974. So rather than trying to raise me in the Philippines and feeding another mouth and the struggle of having to raise another child in a third world country. It's much easier at the time. It's just to give your child to someone who can give them a better life, guaranteed. Any Filipino will tell you that. Like growing up. Struggling in America is going to be way better than being, you know, middle class. So she gave gave me to her sister. And her sister immediately took me to the United States. And then I could board a plane. And then she raised me.
Yeah. And that's what I was going to ask is. So how old were you? Like months old?
Days.
Days? Days old? Yeah. Wow. I didn't realize that.
In the 70s. It was not like you don't like there was no books. Like, okay, you can't bring a child on the plane until the three months. No, they were just like here.
Yeah, yeah.
It was as if she gave birth to me. Okay, so she just took her newborn on the plane. How was it?
Yeah. And so, have you ever lived anywhere else other than the Bay area?
Sacramento. But does that really count?
Yeah. No, I mean.
Like Bay area without the ocean.
Yeah. Close enough. Right. So you were raised by your aunt, but she's really your mom also, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
My heart. She's my mom.
Yeah. Who you recently lost? Yes. Yeah. How well do you know your parent? Your.
They live here. They moved here when I was in high school. Okay. You know, they're like. They feel like an aunt and uncle.
You know, we've gotten closer since my mother passed away. They have obviously a special bond being sisters who share a child. So. But she's always respected. She was never a secret to me. But she's always respected the relationship I built with my mother. And I respect what she did for me. So it's cool.
Yeah. No.
That's great.
All right. And what about your siblings and family?
You know, they're like cousins.
Yeah.
Like spiritually or like emotionally. They're just like cousins to me. Yeah. Like I have friends that are closer than my brother and sister. Hopefully they're not listening to this, but, you know.
Hey, it's the truth, right? Yeah.
You know, I it's very little emotion.
And have you been have you ever gone to visit?
When I was seven.
Yeah. That was the last time.
Yeah. Vague memories, you know.
Yeah.
Running around on dirt streets and, like, eating bananas on a stick and a typhoon.
Oh, wow. Really? Yeah. So on that note, where you said you have friends who are closer. So I know that friendship is a really important your friends and having friends is.
The most important thing.
Yeah. So can you elaborate on that a little bit? Like. Like why? Like how did that you know.
How did.
I not how not. Well, you could go into that, I guess. But I mean.
I just came to the belief and I don't know, when I came at some point when I was old enough to think for myself as a human, I'm going to get really deep right now. You really only need food, shelter, water and each other. You don't need anything else to survive. Like we have all the shit. We have recording equipment, liquid death and cats and nice furniture and Guitar hero, whatever. We have all this stuff, and mentally we struggle with the things we own, the things we're trying to achieve. But really, you don't need it to survive, right? We all know we're all smart enough to know that. Not all of us. But if you're smart, you know that there's like, societies that have been untouched by everything we spoil ourselves with, and they're perfectly happy. You know, and if you watch enough documentaries about the way of the world, you'll see that people who have less end up being happier.
Yeah.
And so I just kind of even though I enjoy all the extra stuff I own in life, if I stripped it down, the people that make it, like if people don't know I own this shit, then what the hell do I own it, right. Yeah.
Or people to share it with. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Why have a record collection if other people can't listen with you?
If you're not, talk about music.
Exactly. Right. Right. Or have people over and listen to it or.
Yeah. Humanity is, you know, we're all animals, but we're, you know, we're just the most social beings. And that's why we develop and invent things and have moved on. Yeah, the bush or whatever. We're from the ocean, whatever theory you want to go with.
Yeah. So and because of that, I was thinking to because of your your whole story as well, I would think friendship. I mean, you've had you've been friends because I know this for a fact. There are some people you've been friends with forever. Yes. You know, I mean, I know a couple of them.
I know you're pretty close to being forever.
No, but. Well. But, you know, I'm thinking of in elementary school. You know, you still have friends from elementary school. Not everyone can say that anymore. And isn't elementary school. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or was it middle school where someone gave you the name or said your name is Jocko and it stuck. Elementary school. It is elementary.
School. Leo Royce. Yeah, to be exact, was the first person to start calling me that.
So, wait. So tell everyone the story of your name, too. Like, so what's your actual name? Because we keep calling Fernand.
Jocko.
Fernand. Jocko. Okay.
But Fernand was the name my parents gave me because they were like Marco supporters. And Jocko was my adoptive mother's husband's last name, which I was forced to keep after her divorce, even though I never knew the guy because she continued to get benefits because I was technically his son.
Oh.
So she got $600 a month. If I change my name or she gets married, then the. Then the US Navy no longer sends her a check.
Oh, interesting.
She did that check. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. And now you're known as Chuck. I mean, yes, it was.
Like federal child support.
So going back to school. So we've known you, I've known you, we've known each other for, you know, since 93. Can you tell everyone about high school and which one. Well I know that's true. There's quite a few, but.
It's a lot of stories.
Actually one of my favorite like moments with you and I think I've told you this before, but I think it was one of the first moments that made me really, like, laugh out loud. That you made me laugh out loud was when you fell on the steps of the quad. And then you you posed on the steps as if you meant to, you know. But I think that was one of the first moments back then. Yeah.
That was I wasn't the brilliant wordsmith of a comic I am now.
No, but I think it really introduced me to your type of, like, humor and, you know, and being funny. And because people would tell me, oh, he's like the class clown. He's this. But I didn't know you very well yet. And so I feel like that was one of the first introductions of.
Being funny is just the easiest icebreaker for me.
Yeah, yeah.
You know.
And it was in front of a bunch of cheerleaders, so.
Yeah, I knew that.
I know, yeah. So, you know, I'm not saying you didn't know what you were doing.
Exactly what I was doing. I was like, well, how was I going to do it with my, my looks or charm? So I had to be funny.
I think I think my mom still has this somewhere in her house. But there's also an old, like Concord High newspaper article with the two about the two of us.
About the two of us.
Yeah. Because, no, it was something where I think I was hello Kitty, where I was the junior prom princess or whatever. And we were. Or we were both nominated.
I was nominated for King. Yes.
Yes, I think it was because we were nominated. And there was a whole thing where it was asking us like to answer questions that I know I need to find it again. But it's a picture of the two of us standing together. Really? Yeah. And we look like babies. Anyway and that was in 93, I think, because it was junior. Junior prom princess. Yeah.
And listens to this and has a copy I'm willing to pay.
Yeah. I think, well, you could pay my mom if she can find it. But so the story I'm thinking of is, is senior year. Senior year?
Which one?
Exactly that one story.
It's pretty simple. Leah Rice was involved. My friend Todd O'Leary was at the time, struggling our senior year. I was too, but not at that level. And so I think he already had The inclination that he was going to stay back another year. His brother had failed earlier in life, so his mind it was okay because his brother did it. His other triplet brother dropped out of high school, and you know, he'd be, even though he has to stay back another year, he gets to graduate with one of his brothers. But we were close friends, and we were at Denny's on Contra Costa Boulevard near the mall. And Leah Royce was sitting between us. And he asked me like, you know, something to the effect of wouldn't it be cool if we both stayed back in high school together? I was like, you're crazy, man. I was like, don't try to put me in your boat. And Todd smoked a lot of marijuana at that time, and anyone that's hung out with someone that smokes a lot of marijuana, they have a lot of really good theories. And ideas. So he was very elaborate about how he envisioned another senior year of he and I together. And it went from me thinking it was crazy to like, you know what? Okay. It's not a bad idea.
Yeah. So he was very convincing. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, the big thing was, you know, the people we were graduating with, like, we knew them, but we didn't have any bond with them. We were always closer with the class that was just below us in your class, too. So we had more friends in the that were going to stay in high school than we would be graduating with. Frankly, I thought they were dicks.
Yeah.
So you know, to be able to go through graduation with, you know, 200, 300 people you like, rather than 200, 300 people that you would just care to get rid of in your life.
Yeah.
You know, no offense to any of.
Them 200 dicks.
Some of them have become better people. But I was pretty right in my read. So, you know, I went home and I explained to my mom that I wanted to do this. And, you know, my mom was very naive, and I love my mother, but she was a terrible parent. And she said, well, whatever makes you happy. And, you know, we did it. We stayed another year. We we marketed ourselves that we were gonna do it. We just didn't do it. And like, show up the first day of school. No, we told everyone we're going to flunk. And it worked.
And did it turn out the way that he said it would better. Yeah, it was better.
I mean, he had much higher hopes for certain things. But then other things happened that obviously weren't expected.
Yeah, that ended up being better.
But the most important thing was, you know, when we finally left high school, we didn't we didn't leave with that sense of like, that was a shitty four years. Like a lot of people have. You know, most people that go through high school have a tough time, you know, it's transitional part, and you don't realize how important it is to your life till you're older.
Oh, totally.
I mean, you know, anyone that has a job and has lived life goes through the same dramas they did as they did in high school.
Whether it's dealing with the opposite sex or, you know, love relationships you know, hobbies, racism, you know, liking things, hating things, whatever. All those things you learn about people.
Yeah. Bullying.
You learn to deal with it in high school, and then when you deal with it adult, you're like, oh, thank God I dealt with those assholes in high school. Now I can deal with these assholes at the shell station I'm working on.
And it always happens eventually. So if you didn't have that experience in high school, you're going to have it in college. Or like you said, you're going to have it in the workplace and you're going to.
In the neighborhood you live in.
Yeah.
Like, you see it everywhere we go.
And just like the partying to where it's like, if you're not going to party in high school, then you're going to do it in college and maybe drop out of college because you didn't do it in high school. I heard a lot of those stories.
You know, and some people don't have the stereotypical high school college life. That's fine. For the most part, everyone has similar experiences because, you know, it's a time for people to bond and, you know, you learn about each other and you learn about humanity. It's the biggest. It's the only real lesson they teach you.
Oh yeah. They definitely don't teach you.
I couldn't tell you anything I learned in history class. Yeah.
Well they definitely don't teach you about life. No. Like the rest of like kids. Yeah.
Something I just learned.
Yeah. About buying beds.
Yeah. I never owned a good bed.
Oh.
And then when my mom died, I was, like, going to Vegas a lot, and I sleeping in nice beds, and I'm like, I should probably get one of these at home. And I got one here. I've never slept better at home than I do now. And it's all because I spent money on a bed. And no one ever told me, like no one told me how to do my taxes. No one told me how to pay rent and bills. Yeah, no one told me that I should buy a bed before anything on the planet. Yeah, and now I know.
Were you, like, peeking under the sheets in the hotel rooms to see what mattress it was? No, no, no.
No, I mean, I did this like, literally this is like a month ago. So it wasn't like, it's very new to me. No, I, I just googled. Yeah.
And I'm like, best bets, right?
I almost bought a bed from the Bellagio. You can buy the same beds. Oh, so they have a site called Bellagio at home? They almost did it. But I'm like, you know, I'm going to go to, like, the sleep place. Yeah, actually, like.
Try them on.
Try them on. Yeah. I did 32nd rotations on the three most expensive ones.
Nice. Nice.
That's how I ended up with beauty. Last. Best beauty. Beauty. Rest black.
Oh, sweet. Well. And also. Okay. You're 50. I'm almost 40. I'm almost 50. I'm 49. And so mattresses are very important. Yeah, I agree.
I don't I'm wondering how many years of life I lost, right?
Seriously? It's important. So it was. It actually paid off. Staying back a year? Oh, yeah. Clearly. Yeah. And also, that's when you. Because you stayed back, we were able to have our story of going to the city during. Right. Wasn't it. Senior ball for class of 93.
Correct.
And we went to the city and we saw Groundhog Day. Yes. That was funny. But I feel like that was the very first time, too, that we ever, like, hung out as friends. Right.
And your mom set that up?
That's right. Wait. Remind me of that again. You, like, went to the office and. Oh, yeah. Office? For anyone who doesn't know this to my mom was the secretary about this. I know, but it's important to point this out. Like, why? Why my mom was there. Right. But my mom was one of the secretaries at the high school that we went to.
Something else you listeners should know that Meredith struggled for many years with the fact that her mother was more popular than she was in the school.
Everyone loved my mom more than me. This day.
I actually tried to avoid talking about your mother.
Oh, you can talk about my mother.
Make you feel special when you're around me.
Oh, I hope you don't really do that, because I do. I don't mind it now.
I did see your dad the other.
Day in high school. It's. It's. I would hope that I would grow out of that by high school. Yeah. No, I don't mind it now. You can definitely ask me about my mom, but yes, my. Everyone loved my mom. And I have to say to everyone always said, oh, you must hate it. You must hate it that she's there. I actually didn't care because I did not cut class. I was not a bad student. I didn't get into trouble. If I was a troublemaker, I would have hated it.
How could you when she's there?
No, but I wasn't, though, naturally.
But I think you were like. Oh, if I get caught.
Yeah. I mean, what's funny is I would be drunk at school, and.
I get I get caught. They have to call my mom who doesn't pick up the phone because she's probably in Reno gambling, right? So they just get an answering machine, or they get my grandmother who can't speak English. When you get caught, if you were to get caught, they just kind of walked to your mom's desk.
They'd walk over. Yeah. Yeah.
If you were late, if you were ever late to class, they would just be like, hey.
Yeah.
Did you drive Meredith to school?
Exactly. Yeah. But I but I also, if I needed lunch money, if I needed to before practice, I we always did McDonald's trips to, you know, before practice. I would go and get money from her, you know. So that kind of thing was great.
There's a lot of conveniences.
I didn't care about any of that. So I did care, though, when people would write in my yearbook, I love your mom. That I did care about, you know, I'd go. She has her own yearbook, you could say.
What's hilarious is the world of pornography has leaned towards that.
What?
The whole like, you know, there's. Oh, come on, let's let's be real. Who hasn't been on Pornhub? Like, there's literally, like, a stepmom section.
Oh, like like a mILF section? Yes. Stepmom section kind of thing. Yeah yeah yeah, yeah. Like, you know.
She could have had an OnlyFans back in.
The day, right?
Wanted to.
Oh, man. She missed out on that one.
I don't know if she would have been getting naked for people, but maybe like, you know, just her and like an apron making biscuits or something.
Yeah. So. Okay, so after high school, you know, I want to get into your punchline days.
Okay.
So because you were young when you. Yep. How old were you when you.
Started.
There?
Yeah, 18.
Now, was this Sacramento, right? Walnut Creek, it was Walnut Creek first. Okay. Yeah. So. But you became a manager, right?
When I was 20.
When you were 20? Yeah. So tell talk to me about that. Like, what was that like? I mean, you were 20 years old managing a.
I had the keys to the place a year after I started working there because our manager, Dave Houseman, was very. He trusted me for that way. He didn't like showing up to work on time, so someone had to open the club. So I would do it for him because I would just agree to do everything I was, you know, I was like the guy who's whatever job needed to be done, like I would, I would agree to do it, whether it was, you know, cleaning toilets or washing glasses or running food or doing telemarketing during the day, you know, driving comics to the hotel, whatever, I would do it.
Yeah. And punchline for anyone who doesn't know, is a comedy club chain. Yeah.
Bay area.
And what? So I already know that you loved, you know, being funny and comedy and everything like that. But what drew you to, like, punchline and tell me about the history of leading you to like, your love of stand up and everything.
I was a kid when I was in high school. I watched a lot of stand up at the time. There was a lot of, you know, there wasn't just Comedy Central, there was no Comedy Central. But, you know, Public Access TV had it. You know, TBS had late night shows, MTV, so HBO, even improv, Def Jam Comedy Hour there's like a local Bay area comedy thing. There's just tons of comedy half hour comedy hour. And I loved it. I loved laughing, my my mom like, had to ground me because I called nine, 976 joke all the time to get like, jokes. I didn't realize it was costing $0.50 a minute to listen to a bunch of jokes that I never told. I just listened to him and laughed.
Wait, what kind of jokes were they? Like just the dad joke kind of thing or.
I don't even think they had dad jokes back then.
No, but.
I couldn't tell you.
Yeah, just.
Like.
Regular whatever jokes.
Two guys walk into a bar kind of jokes. Okay, whatever.
Yeah.
And it was all hilarious to me. And then I'd stay up at night. You know, kids wake up in the morning and watch cartoons. I stayed up late at night and slept in because I was watching, you know, stand up at 11 p.m. in my room.
So who were your favorites at that time?
When I was a kid. Colin, I really liked Colin. I have a lot of memories for some reason of Carrie Snow.
Oh, yeah.
You know, she didn't make it huge. She was just sort of heavy set That was just funny. Yeah. Prior. I mean, like Eddie Murphy as much as everyone else. Everyone loved Eddie Murphy at the time, but he was just kind of okay to me. His comedy doesn't age that well. If anyone listens to Eddie Murphy now, you're just like, oh, can't get away with that now, prior. It's timeless.
Yeah.
Carlin is timeless. So, you know, there was a bunch of, you know, Arsenio was hilarious at the time. Yeah.
Oh, my gosh, the Arsenio Hall show. Yeah. Oh, my lord. I like, forgot that existed for a second. Yeah.
I mean, but his standup was really good too.
Yeah. Okay. So it started there. Yes. Yeah.
And then saw an ad in the paper for a food server at a comedy club. So I ran down and I applied, and I was dressed like Fresh Prince of Bel Air getting off the plane, and they were like, like three white guys in suits, like, filling out applications. And the manager, Rick Bates, comes and opens the door and he's like, what are you here for? And I'm like, I'm here to interview for your job. And he's like, really? I was like, yeah. He's like, all right. And he just walked me past all the guys filling out the applications. And he sits me down and he says, why do you want to work here? I'm just like, I mean, I love comedy, so it'd be cool to work at a comedy club. So what would you know? What do you you know, what do you see yourself doing in five years? I'm like, probably your job, kid. You don't want my job. I'm like, yes, I do. And so you start Thursday. I was like, oh, that's easy. I walk past all those guys who didn't even get hired.
Nice. And this is when you were 19, right?
18.
18. Okay. And 20 is when you became the manager in Sacramento. Yep. Right. Okay. Now, what was that like? So you're 20 years old.
I can picture it.
Yeah.
You're not old enough to have keys to a bar and you have keys to a bar.
Yeah.
You're bossing around adults. So it was tough at times to get their respect, but it was actually harder to get the respect of the people who were close to my age.
Now, why do you think that?
I mean, that's maturity, obviously. You know, the the adults are smart and they understood, like, look, as long as they just do their job, they'll be fine. Younger people are like, you know, this guy's same age as me. Yeah. Why is he bossing me around?
And then. But then you met a lot of people, right. Yeah.
I mean it's just like high school. Yeah. Again it's like you get the, the working world is just the same people of different ages, different backgrounds, you know, get along with them then. The more people who get along with, the more tolerable the job is. It's still a job. Yeah. You know, it was fun, but it was still a job nonetheless. That's why it's called job. And that's why they pay you. Yeah. So I liked everyone I worked with for the most part, and it made the job fun. Yeah, just the comedy. Yeah. Comedy was, of course, a minute like the comedy. But, you know, I also enjoyed slang and nachos.
Yeah.
And wiping tables for the cute older waitresses that worked there.
So, you know, why did you leave and where did you go next?
I quit, slash got fired, you know? Yeah, basically, you know, I was 21. I was managing a nightclub, and after a couple of years of doing it, like it was a tough lifestyle for me, like, I, like I said earlier, like, I didn't do all the things you're supposed to do as an adult. Like, you know, pay your bills and manage your money and deal with relationships and everything inside the club. I was very, very good at everything. Outside. The club was a complete shambles, you know, drank gambling problem. Never had real relationships with women. And, you know, it was kind of fake outside the club because I hid a lot of my personal problems like that. It all kind of came crashing down because at the time, I had a really bad gambling problem, and they offered to help straighten me out. But, you know, I just was like, I'd rather just go home and mom and figure out life. So I just walked away from it.
And do you feel like you were kind of like two different people, like one person in the club and one person out, Like you or like living two different lives, or that just you just were hiding.
I just didn't know how to be an adult.
Yeah.
I still don't in many, many, many respects. But it was elevated then. I wasn't, you know, I didn't have family. And, you know, my friends were all college or living their lives. So, you know, I was dealing with my coworkers and whatever friends that I rustled up at the time. And even though I had some close ones, it was it was just hard, hard to look people in the eye and be like, hey, you know, I don't know how to fill out tax forms or make a car payment.
Yeah.
You know, I couldn't even get my own apartment. I was like, I was always just living in a room in someone's house or sharing.
Yeah, it's it's hard when people don't like show you and tell you how to do things that no one teaches you, that you figure all that out for yourself. And we're part of that generation, too, where everything really was. You figure it out for yourself. Yeah.
But I still don't think they teach kids that.
No. They don't. I mean.
Hopefully parents do, but.
No, but nowadays.
They should be required classes.
Yeah. There should. Apparently here in California, it's going to start in high school. Like a financial class is going to be part of the curriculum. But like.
Home ec should be required.
Yeah. That went away. It's just the basics, you know. Yeah. And it should actually finances should be part of just a home ec class. So different parts of the semester you have like.
Freshman year should just be six, six periods of life skills. Yeah. And then this is my this is this is actually my theory for schools. It should be six periods of life skills. Not know subjects yet, right. Just life skills. And then through those classes and say okay through these life skills like what did you like about dealing with these skills, you know, and then you can go to more focused stuff.
Yeah, I like that. Especially someone who has a 14 year old son going into high school. I would love it if, I mean.
You never had goals in high school. You know, there's a couple kids who were like, I want to be a doctor or lawyer, but you never knew that there was other professions. Yeah. Like if I knew the professions that were in the world right now, you know, I would have worked a lot harder in school to try to achieve one of those professions. No one told me there was marketing. No one told me there was advertising. No one told me you could be a video game designer, you know?
Yeah. And you can actually make money doing it. Yeah.
They told you you could be an architect of buildings, but they never told you. You could be an architect of Lego or things you might be interested in. Yeah, I think if kids just knew that.
And that you don't have to go straight to college. Yeah, that whole idea of that was just like, you know, bombarded into your brain. Everything was a college fair. There were there wasn't a career fair at a high school. Well, I mean, I think that's it should be completely flipped.
Last 20 years of generations, I think is almost I feel like they're kind of ruined because they had this mindset of like, oh, I can go to college, get a tech job, make a shit ton of money.
Also, is that the only reason why you would want to be a tech bro anyway is just for the money. How about doing something you actually enjoy doing? Yeah, and you would love.
But they were taught that money was everything.
Exactly. Because you can even leave high school and become an apprentice and make money right out of the gate. If that first a trades job, the.
Technology boom taught them that you didn't have to get your hands dirty.
Exactly. But I'm saying. Yeah, but I just don't think that's right. I mean.
No, it's not.
But there's so many things missing in that could like, as you said, that could be happening in high school, especially to just get you ready. And that's why so many graduating seniors, they're going to college and they are scared out of their minds, but they're afraid to tell anyone that because they don't know what the fuck to do. They don't know what they want to do. They don't know how to live life. They don't know how to be away from their parents house. And then they're forced to go live in a dorm and, you know, or a fraternity or sorority house, just say, saying, hey, this is what you want to do next. I mean.
In America, they're it's like parents try to push their kids to be better than them, I think. I feel like in other countries they push their kids to just be as good, you know? Like, you don't see people like passing their businesses on as much. You know, the tradition is Japan. If if you own a business, it goes to your oldest son and so on and so on. And it's an honor to take that on. Yeah. And like here, it's like, you know, you own a liquor store, a donut shop that your parents own this place for 20 years. And they're like, well, we don't want to pass it on to you. We want you to not do this. Like, well.
Yeah. And why.
Not? People in the town have depended on that donut shop. Like, what's wrong with still selling donuts?
There's nothing wrong with owning a donut shop. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's interesting.
To say you're going to be happy being a doctor.
Yeah. What if you don't want to be a doctor? And also, what if that that parent tells you to be a doctor, you know, and you actually don't want to. And you'd rather run the donut shop, but now you're afraid to tell your parent that that's the other side of that, too. That really happens. I saw that a lot in our generation as well. Back to okay so you so leaving punchline. So what happened? Where where were you? What? You moved back here to your mom's. Is that right?
My mom had a roommate at the time, so I moved in with her other sister.
Oh, okay.
Which was in the same building that we're sitting in.
So I. I lived near my mom, but I lived with her sister because her, she had a she just had room.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
You know, but I was close to my mom, and obviously she's my aunt, so she cared for me, too. Yeah. And they understood what I was going through. And, you know, they helped me, you know, get get me back on my feet. You know, my aunt helped me find a job and get back into the working world. But I wasn't happy for a long time. It took a long time.
To.
Get over that because the best job I ever had. You know, and I never thought it would be better.
Yeah. So do you feel were you, like, constantly looking back?
Always.
Yeah.
I mean, I got I did exactly what we just talked about is I got into tech because it was easy.
Oh, yeah. So that's what you did, right? You got into.
Technology for law firms. But.
That's right.
It was lame, you know, like, I don't like I didn't like having a job that you couldn't talk about.
Oh, yeah.
You know, there was something. Yeah. It's obviously it's cool. Like, you know, if you're managing, if you're a plumber, a carpenter, like, you can talk about your job and people take interest in what you do, you know. But if you work tech, no one's like, wow, it's so cool.
Yeah. No, it was specifically it. Is that right.
For a.
Law firm? For a law firm? Okay. But that's how you also met some really good friends, right?
Yeah. I mean, throughout my life, that's just just part of my. The way I am is like, wherever I am, I'm the. Even if I didn't like the working situation or the life I'm living, I'm like, I just got to make the best of the people. You know? I had to learn to make friends again. The struggle, because it wasn't like I had less in common with people that worked at law firms.
Yeah.
Like, you know, now it's a bunch of people with like four, eight year college educations, multiple degrees. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just a guy who used to work at a comedy club.
And then after the law firm, is that when you went to the Warriors or what? Yeah, Yeah.
I quit the law firm. I finally was like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I started working at public storage because I started watching Storage Wars.
Oh.
That's true. And I thought I worked there for, like, six months, and I was like, this is great. I enjoyed it, I really enjoyed that job. Yeah. Like I worked there and I worked at a coffee shop, and I got to talk to people, and I didn't care that I was making close to minimum wage. Didn't matter. I was totally happy.
That's great.
I got to see people with their storage unit and anyone that's worked at a storage place. Well, you get to learn about, you know, you walk around the place and you see people dealing with their junk and you're just like, wow, you're just seeing their lives. It's kind of fascinating.
Yeah, I bet I never thought of it that way.
Yeah. Oh, there's there's people that hung out at storage places with their life's collection of whatever. It was weird.
They would just hang out with their collection.
Yeah, like there was a guy who. He collected periodicals in a giant storage unit 16 by 20. Huge. And it was packed wall to wall, I mean packed.
Wow.
Couldn't walk in it. He would pull out this desk. That was just. It fit like a puzzle piece amongst all the periodicals. And pull it out. Have a chair, sit down and just pull something off one of the piles and just start reading. And he'd be there until we closed.
Wow.
And then we close at 9:00, and he'd push the desk back in and put it down and leave.
That's so fascinating.
A guy who was, like, a World War Two veteran. He would go in there and just I mean, it was like set up like a living room where you could, like, sit amongst his things, all his war memorabilia.
And he would just sit there amongst amongst it. Like, would he play music or would he like anything?
I mean, I mean, you know, I would only see them when I walk.
Oh, sure.
Grounds and talk to them a little. But for the most part, they just wanted to be near their stuff because I guess they didn't have room for their stuff where they were at or, you know.
They weren't allowed to or something or. Yeah.
A husband or a wife.
Wouldn't give him a room. Yeah. For their stuff.
There was other things, you know, people that you expect, like people running their business out of their, you know, memorabilia collectors would have a lot of stuff there.
Of course. Yeah. It's a cell and you know. Yeah.
I'm sure there was a lot of illegal no gooders doing things as well.
Well, sure. I mean.
So. Yeah.
Well that's interesting. So I don't even know you did that. Yeah.
But then my friend Tara Lynn, her husband, was an IT director for the Warriors, needed help. So he asked me to come out of retirement, and I refused. I said no, and then Tara Lynn talked me out of it. She's like, you can't be working at public storage. Like you need a real job. I didn't want to do it. She's up at this for the Warriors. You like the Warriors? I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to do that job. I hated it, but I did it, you know, and it worked out because socially, you know, working the Warriors was the closest thing to high school. Again, everyone's there for the same reason. You know, a lot more people have in common. The hierarchy is very the same. So it's easy to get my feet wet socially, unlike a law firm where hierarchy is completely different.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's the dumb kids and the smart kids where now everyone's just love sports, you know?
Yeah. Loves the team. Yeah, yeah. Has something. Everyone has something in common. No matter who you are. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, 90% of the people that work there had some sort of dream of being an athlete in their life.
Really?
Yeah. I think we all have that moment.
Of wanting to be an athlete.
Sure. Oh, you never put yourself. You never, like, played baseball in the backyard with your brother and been like, you know what? I'm. I'm wrong, or I'm Steve Sax.
No, no. For me, it was acting. I would watch the Oscars and go, oh, I want to be on the stage one day. Similar. Yeah. So same kind of idea. So I get it.
Yeah, but I'm saying.
No, this specifically was sports.
Yeah, because it was a sports team. So it's a lot of people who were like, I mean, I remember the first day I went there and like, you know, here's this hot blonde that's working the desk, and she's asking me what the score of the angels game was. And I'm like, what the hell? I'm like, everyone likes sports here.
Yeah. No, see? That's cool. Yeah. You know. Well, no, I mean, you know how much I love sports. I just didn't want to ever be a major athlete, you know?
Kids always have dreams of doing something, whether it's acting or.
Yeah.
Whatever. Being a superhero.
Yeah.
Something that's not like were their heart. Yeah, it really is.
Yeah. Well, what's. So what's yours? What was it.
Was being a comic.
Yeah.
Sure.
And.
And then I worked at a comedy club. Wow. That's a depressing lifestyle.
Yeah. Not doing that. Is that. Is that really what, like, turned you off from that or. Because, you.
Know, there was a there was a comic. I talked to him. His name was Kevin Kataoka, and he's the one who turned me off on the idea, which was I was like, wow, it must be great to be a comic and get to be on the road and see all these other comics and laugh at jokes. And he's like, no, he's just ends up being a job and you kind of lose, you know, the luster of laugh because you're competing with other people. And I was like, ooh, that doesn't sound great. And then I started watching The Way they were. People, like, every, every comic has some sort of, like, social ability. Some sort.
Yeah.
I was like, oh, I don't I don't ever want to stop laughing.
So I told myself like, well maybe one day if I do become a comic, great. But if not like I don't, I don't ever want to like not laugh. I don't want to be one of these guys.
Yeah. I've always I've always wondered, like, what the life is like, because it just seems as if you're just traveling around, right?
There's only a small amount of people out there that really do it great.
And make really good money, right?
Not even that. I don't even think making great money is always a goal. I think it comes with the territory, but I think a real comic that's not Carlin's. Chris Rock's Chappelle's the you name it Leno. You know, all those guys, they just want to be on stage.
It's not the why. Yeah, yeah.
And then you have like, guys like Eddie Murphy who are just like, you know what? I'm cool sitting on my millions and he'll never see a stage again. But then you have a guy like Jerry Seinfeld who's like, maybe more than anyone in the world of comedy, and he doesn't want to get off the stage?
Yeah, because he loves it.
They love.
It. Yeah.
You know, the other 98% of them are just grinders who've been telling the same 45 minutes of jokes their whole career. I'm like, I can't be one of those guys.
Yeah, that sounds awful. It's awful. It does. It sounds terrible. I mean, how could you be happy.
To do it? And I don't know how they do.
It, really? Because I just can't imagine being happy.
I'm sure there is some happiness because it's, you know, it's better than working at a gas station or being a doctor or a lawyer. Yeah, you are.
For them, for sure.
Still making people happy. But for me, I just wouldn't be satisfied.
Yeah, totally.
A lot of people ask me like, why haven't I done it? I tried it, I liked it, but I could never be one of those guys who, like, just grinds it. I have friends that do it, and I'm sorry that I talk about them this way, but like. But for me personally, like, I would want to be someone who, you know, if you if I don't want to if I'm going to do it, I want to be the best, you know. I don't want to be some middle reliever of stand up. To me, it's disrespectful to the art to just do the one thing and call it a day.
But don't you have to kind of put in the work to become the best instead of starting off as the best?
I don't think I could see myself putting in the work.
Yeah, okay. Yeah.
I don't know if lazy is the right word, but like, it's a lot of work and it's it's it's stressful. But I mean, it's clearly rewarding if you do it right.
So okay so you, you go to the Warriors for it And then, I mean, did you like it or.
Well, I only lasted a year.
Yeah, because you really still didn't like the actual it part. Right. And then I.
Got looped in the marketing.
So were you bummed that you took that job, or do you feel like it was a perfect. I yeah.
Once I got to know people there, like I said, it was like the closest thing to being in high school or being in the punch line again, because now it's a show, right? You know, it's sports, so it's still entertainment. So, you know, in an arena with 14,000 fans, that's cool. Meeting people that are like minded and having something in common. So it's cool. And you know, I got lucky. They won, I got lucky, I got out of it. So I got to do marketing, which was something that was more suited to my personality, my creative side. So yeah, it's much happier there.
Oh, good. Yeah, but then you left the war Airs, right?
I left because I watched up in the air by with George Clooney.
George Clooney. True.
Everyone thinks I left because my mom got sick. But that's not true.
Wait, so tell me, what did the movie have to do with.
Have you ever seen it?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. There was you know, he fired people for a living. And then there's a scene where he fires a guy who's had a job for 20 years working at a desk. The guy's pissed. He looks at his resume and tells him, like, well, this wasn't really what you wanted to do. It says here you wanted to be a chef. You went to culinary school. He's like, yeah, he's like, that was your dream. He's like, yeah, I wanted to be a chef. He's like, how much does this job pay you to give up on your dreams? And then it hit me. I was like, as much I love the Warriors. And I'm like, I didn't want to be at a desk. There was a lady. True story. A couple of months before I quit. Like she died at her desk. She had a heart attack.
Yeah, she literally died at her desk.
She had a heart attack. I'm like, I don't want to have a heart attack doing marketing.
In a cubicle. Yeah. Yeah.
Like, I like these people. I love the Warriors. Like, it was fun, but sitting in a desk was such a depressing thought, you know? And then I. After I watched that movie, I just thought of every movie where someone was sitting at a desk.
I felt like every time I turned on the TV or looked around, it was there was just desks everywhere. And I was like, oh this is awful.
And I just saw desks. It's like a graveyard. Yeah. See it's a job. I'm like I need to get back to what I really loved, which was working in comedy clubs or just I like the restaurants, I like nightclubs, I like bars, I like, you know, I like selling a product that people need. You don't need basketball. You need to eat. You need to drink.
Yeah.
You know, those things don't have to. Don't need marketing if they're good.
Yeah. It's word of mouth. Yeah. It's. Yeah. And then it becomes its own marketing after that.
So I quit to be a bartender because it was. It was a fun way. You know, I was like, well, you know, I'm 40 and I maybe have 30 more years left. I'm like, how do I want to finish out this, this life? Do I want to finish out behind the desk and croak like this lady did, or live it out behind a bar? There's a great episode. Like, you know, anyone who knows me, I watch Anthony Bourdain Shows daily. And he goes to Miami. He meets a guy who owns a bar, and I've been to this bar. And he's a former, like, World War Two veteran.
And after he gets a war, he just buys this bar. He ends up working there until his late 90s, turns 100 in the bar and never quits. Works 3 or 4 days a week. He owns it now. But he loved him and kept alive. He smoked. He drank, you know.
Yeah, but he worked. He was.
On his.
Feet.
And he was. He was relating to people. I'm a firm believer that, you know, the healthiest way to live is to just have relationships and talk to people. I'm big on some Ted talk out there where a lady talks about, you know, longevity. And the key to longevity is being social.
Oh, 1,000%.
Nothing to do with, you know, all these people. Like I was walking around. This was it. It's the healthy supermarket.
Whole foods. Whole foods. Whole foods.
Everyone there is, like, skinny and wearing yoga clothes. And I'm like, just this sort of average sized dude. Like, looking at pork. I'm like, are these people happy?
Probably not. I mean, maybe some are, but what's the percentage? Right. Yeah. Well, yeah. Like I mean, that's one of the things with the blue zones is community. It's being around people is one of the reasons why these areas live so long.
And I started thinking about, like, I know more people that have died in my age group that took care of themselves than the ones who don't. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to live my life the way I want to.
Yeah. Hey. Fuck it, I mean, but I mean. And for you. And it should be for everybody. But being around people is, you know, being around your friends, but also just meeting strangers. You're really good at just talking to strangers. And it's.
Life giving. Yeah. You know, if you know that you're going to wake up the next day and, you know, be talking to someone like, it's cool.
We were so bartending.
Yes.
Although actually, since you brought up Bourdain okay, can you tell me why it is you love him so much? Yeah. Or when you like. What is it that really drew you to him the first time you, like, saw one of his shows or whatever that he.
Yeah. Everyone knows about him eating food or partying and going to cool places. But then the one real constant in all of his shows is no matter what type of person, where they are in the world, he was always respectful and never, never judged them.
Right. Like some of my favorite episodes of his are with like Ted Nugent he says like I have nothing in common with this guy. He is as politically opposite of me as possible. But he's like, I love him. Yeah, they have some things in common. Like obviously the food is like, you know, you learn that from a lot of those food travel shows. It's just food is what brings people together. And I get that. But he's very respectful and I've always been that way where it's like, hey, if you're different, if you're racist, I'm not the one who's going to be like, well, you know, that's fucked up. You're a racist. I'm the one who's like, well, why are you racist? We're not born this way. Like, how did you get this way? And then I take the time to be like, okay, you grew up in this part of the country and you were only taught these things. You know, there was a lot of things. You know, my mom wasn't. She wasn't a saint. You know, there was a time she hated black people, but it was it was what she was taught. And then, boom. Next thing you know, we have black neighbors. Girl, they loved her. And she loved them. And that went away.
Yeah.
So I don't fault people for not liking certain things because they just haven't experienced it. And that's that's what he did is he took the time to experience things and whether he liked it or not, he respected the person that sat across the table from him. So I do that. It's not easy, right? But but in the long run, like you, you know, it's just the better way to live.
It is. You're right. I mean, I think a lot of people could learn from that for sure.
Everyone's like, oh, yeah, you have so many friends because you're so. You're so good with people. I'm like, it's not a skill. Just be tolerant. Yeah, and be accepting of people's differences.
Yeah. And just a basic understanding of that. Like you said, realizing no one's born a certain way. Yeah. No one's born believing something everyone has to. Everything we are taught is taught by our environment and our circumstances and everything. So, yeah.
There's not a certain there's not a single thing I like in life that wasn't introduced to me in some way.
Yeah, that's what I always find interesting, too, about people who have so many beliefs about things they've never actually witnessed or experienced It's as well. And I feel like in today's day and age too, that happens a lot because of the internet and social media, and where people just decide that they feel a certain way about something that they actually know nothing about.
Like, there's I'm a firm believer and there is no right and wrong. That is a man made thought, right? Someone told you that was right. Someone told you that was wrong.
Also, we live in a world too, where everything is just so black and white now. Like there's no gray area when everything's in the gray area. Yep. And now we live in such a polarized world where you you really don't hear people say, I believe or I think before they say something. Everything is exact truths. As if that's fact. And I mean, I just love that you're bringing that up because it's I don't know, I just feel everyone I hear from and talk to. Everyone just says, this is how it is. No, actually, that's what you believe it is. Why don't you start your sentence with that?
And then in the end, someone taught them to be that way, or they learned it from someone.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
You know, like, I'm not the way I am because I was born this way. It's, you know, I watched Bourdain or I, you know, listened to Carlin when I was a kid or, you know, I like hip hop over country. Yeah, that's how I learned things.
Well, and a movie made you go, oh, my God, I don't want to live like that. And I'm going to change things. I mean, it means you're paying attention to a lot of people go through life just not paying attention to what they're absorbing and how they're taking it and actually making taking action and making a choice based on it. Yeah. So you made a choice based on. So you decided. Did you decide bartending is where I'm going to go? How did you happen upon. I just thought, or did you think restaurant bartending either one I'm going to do.
Well, I just so at the time, like my favorite thing to do was going out to dinner with friends and going out and having a drink. So I realized, like, okay, well, yes, I started working at a comedy club, but in the end, it's it's the restaurant industry. So it was like, okay. And, you know, like I said, like I saw people who worked in those industries and they're happier. If you're social bartender, you can. If you want to be creative, you could be a, you know, a mixologist, right? You could be a chef or you could be a cook.
Yeah.
You know, there was different levels.
Sure.
Of being in that and being happy. You're just as happy being a busboy as you are a waiter as you are a hostess.
Yeah, well, someone may even be happier being a busboy because they would hate, absolutely hate being a waiter.
I worked with a guy that just totally okay being the dishwasher.
Yeah, because maybe they. It would drive them nuts to be out there talking to people.
Cool restaurants. They treat the dishwasher like a god.
Which they should respect. Right?
Yeah. There's like a I don't know, I think one of the Michelin starred restaurants, they started this trend of like feeding the, you know, the low man on the totem pole, the best meal everyone would get, like family meals. Yeah. You know, and then he'd get, like, a filet mignon, and I'm like, it's cool.
I love that. I love that total respect, you know? Yeah.
It's like, hey, you're doing something the rest of us aren't willing to do.
Yeah. And once again, noticing it and giving it, you know.
And yeah, that's the other thing is, like anyone who's worked at a restaurant, like at night, you hang out with everyone if if it's a good work environment, of course. Right. But like, you know, the waiters, waitresses hang out with bartenders, they hang out with chefs, like, even hanging out with management once in a while. Like, you don't get that at other places. Yeah.
Do you watch the bear? No, no, no.
I don't watch TV these days just because I like playing video games. I like hanging out with my friends, and and I, I like rewatching things.
Yeah. What are you rewatching these days?
Four days.
Oh, Bourdain. Well, I, I figured Bourdain is just on a constant loop for you. I just mean, is there anything else?
Super constant loop? Yeah. I mean, once in a while, like, I'll. I love Antiques Roadshow.
Oh, yeah.
You can watch Antiques Roadshow forever.
Yeah. Awesome.
I like watching Twitch streams because I've made friends, you know, through that. So it's it's not just like watching them, but you can also, like, talk to them, and that's that's cool. Yeah. It's the way of being social.
Definitely. And before we go into the, like, bartending thing or anything, the other thing you love doing is Lego.
That's very recent though.
Yeah. So how'd you get.
I loved it when I was a kid.
Yeah, but what made. How did the recent.
So when I was caring for my mother, I had to find shows for her to watch so she would be distracted so I could just go to my room and do things. And as she her, she worsened like different shows she wouldn't focus on anymore. So one day I put on Lego Master because I wanted to watch it. I'm watching it. She's watching. She's really happy. Like she likes it. So we watch a season together. You know, there's like four seasons. So I put another season on. But this time I go to the store and I go buy a set. While I'm while she's watching, I'm building and I'm watching, and she's fascinating. She's happy. So it's like, oh, it's like being a kid again. But now, like, instead of just playing with the toys, we're both watching people play with the same toy on TV. Yeah. And, you know, I think it fired in my mom's head and it's like, oh, that's the same thing. So that's cool.
Oh, she connected it. Yeah. Yeah.
You know, and I thought she could build with me, but no, she's just so. She was just fine watching the show, laughing and screaming when they would smash them. And you know, I just kept buying sets and sitting here building. And then I realized that there was a whole world of it, and there was a whole society.
There's a Lego society.
Oh, there are groups. Yeah, conventions.
And I mean, I'm not surprised.
I mean, there's, you know, those Lego masters, just, you know, they didn't just were born from the show. They came from somewhere. And once I started realizing there was a world and people were collecting, I was like, okay, this is something I could do while I take care of my mom.
Yeah. You should be on the show.
No, I'm not that good. They're really good.
They are. But you would be great on the show though. I just want to see you on that.
I mean I'd be great personality.
Exactly. That's what I mean. Although who would be? You would need to be there with somebody. But anyway. But No. That's great. That's so cool. And you have an entire room that looks like a Lego store. It's very cool. Too bad we're not on video. We could, like, show the. Yeah, but. But one day, maybe we'll have. I'll have you back when I'm on YouTube.
Part of me thinks it's cool, and part of me thinks it's like, oh, God, why do I have all this shit?
Yeah, it is cool though. Own it, own it, I own it.
I can't get rid of it now.
Yeah, I know I do.
I'm just going to have to open a store.
Yes. Oh, that'd be so cool. I could see you totally having a Lego store or something. Some kind of store.
I that won't, they'll miss me.
They'll miss you. They wouldn't know what to do without you. Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah. So did you go to bartender school? Like, what did or did you just say.
Yeah, I knew how to bartend.
Oh, you did already. Oh.
But that was bartending in the 90s. Bartending in this generation is way more complex.
Just the drinks and.
Yeah, in the 90s, it was like, you know, Midori Sours.
Yeah. Rum and Coke.
Rum and coke and vodka tonic shots and, you know, slippery nipples and like.
Yeah.
And now it's like, you know, the classics became popular and, you know, three, four ingredient cocktails. Tiki drinks like everything. You know, it became artisan, like everything else in the world. So I during my last year of the Warriors, I took a, like, a lunchtime course through a friend with some award winning bartenders. It was like, eight weeks of, like, going to lunch in the city, but, like, Actually learning how to bartend.
Yeah. Cool. Yeah. That's cool.
Yeah.
So then you became a bartender, right? Yeah. I mean, because you're not a bartender now. I mean, but you.
Do as long as I could. Until my mom.
Yeah. Do you want to do it? Do you want to do it again?
I don't know what I want to do right now.
Yeah.
I'm in limbo. Yeah.
Big time. It's limbo time. Well, we'll get to that in a second. So I do want to get into you do keep bringing up taking care of your mom. And we said your mom getting sick and getting worse. So can we talk about, you know, you were your mom's caregiver. And for how long? How long?
Eight years.
Eight years. Okay. So can you tell everyone when your mom. What were the signs? What is it that your mom.
One one Thanksgiving, right after I left the Warriors, she had collapsed. Well, she was volunteering at a church, feeding homeless people with my aunts. And then that was the first time that she got diagnosed. And so at the time, I was, you know, I was pretty hands off with my mother's health. She's very independent.
Wait. Diagnosed with what? Sorry.
Alzheimer's. Dementia. Like the first signs of it. And you know, at the time, her sister was always her, like, go to person. She would never come to me if she needed anything. She would always go to her sister. She was like our matriarch. And so, you know, I just trusted that it would be taken care of and she would be the best hand. So her sister hired some caretakers who were just ended up just pilfering money. They weren't really caring for her. They're just kind of taking the checks and, like, bouncing around. And that's when I kind of stepped in and said, look, I I'll move in with her and I'll help take care of her. I could still work at night and do that. And then so I kind of split it with my aunt, and then my aunt was like, I don't want anything to do with her anymore. I was like, well, she's dependent on you her whole life. Like you're just going to drop her. So, yeah, I don't want to do. I was like, okay, fine, I'll take over. I don't care.
So just like that, she said, yeah, like like I'm done. Yeah. Okay.
It really tore our family apart because I was like, I'm like, I didn't care that she wanted to step away. It was just. My mom loved her sister so much, you know, even to the end. It was one of the few names she still remembered. But you know, it's just kind of disrespectful. You know, she literally just cut off all ties. I was like, you know what? Then we're going to cut off all ties from you. So I took over, and, you know, I did my best. I just kind of learned on my own, figured it out. Didn't watch any YouTube videos or buy any books. Just did it. And I told myself, like, you know, once I had to do certain things that then I would stop doing it and I'd find someone else to do it. And every time I got to that point, I would go a little further, a little further. And I was like, yeah. It took her like breaking her hip and like not being able to walk where I was like, okay, now I have to. And I knew that she would die after that because that's when, you know, even though her mind was pretty gone, like, I knew if she couldn't get around that her will to live would be gone in like three months. Later she was gone. I'd prepared a long time for it, so it wasn't like, you know, I wasn't one of those people like, oh my God, I lost my mom. I was like, well, now she's not suffering anymore.
Yeah. Yeah. What would you say to someone who is about to start having to take care of a parent?
I mean, first of all, everyone. Like, I always get the whole like, wow, you're such a good soul. Like, you're such a good son. I'm like, no, I'm. I'm a son that really didn't have anything better to do. It was the right decision for my lifestyle. Had I had a wife and kids and a job, like, would I have taken care of my mom the way I did? Of course not. Ship it like everyone else does. And that's not to say that those kind of children are any worse than me. It's just they had other lives to be taken Taking consideration. I would never fault them and I never liked getting praise. Yeah, sure, I had to change my life for it, but it only affected me and my mom. You know, no one else was dependent on me, so I never saw it as like.
Yeah, that you're sacrificing.
Not sacrificing anything much.
Yeah. I mean, you did sacrifice.
But it also goes back down to, you know, I'm also comfortable in the fact that I also know that the only thing humans need is food and drink and a roof over your head and each other. Every day I had my mom with me, and my friends were always supportive of me. The bills were paid. We always had food on the table. We always had something to drink and we had a roof over our head. Like it's fine. We're happy we made the most of it. Yeah. Could I go to the warrior game? No, but now I can watch Lego Master. Can I eat at this nice restaurant that I know? Not as often, but I can learn how to make a great meal. Yeah, there was just. You figure it out.
Is it? Do you think it's an acceptance first or acceptance as you go along as well of just accepting that this is the reality right now? Is that part of it?
Is that the right word? I mean, it just felt right. I think it's acceptance.
The right thing to do.
You know, you never really accept when someone's sick or you're not doing the things you want to do, but it's the right thing.
Do you think it's changed you as a person?
Sure. Of course it did.
Yeah.
Now, I mean, we had that mother son relationship, like, you know, like a lot of you move away from your parents. You don't see him every day. You see your parents on the holidays or whatever, or when you drop the kids off when you go to work. But we saw each other every day. You know, I had to bathe her, comb her hair and make her meals. I had to do all the things she did for me. You know, I always joked like my friends, like, oh, you know, I'll never be a parent. Technically, I have been for eight years. My kid was really fucking old.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, but it it it told me that I could do that and that I was good at it. So, you know. Fine. If I don't want to be a bartender, I could work at an old folks home.
If you want to.
If I want.
To. Yeah.
You know, I could probably volunteer.
You would be really good at it. Yeah. Oh, you'd be great volunteering at a.
I just think.
You.
Know, it'd be great to just still give back. And I think I'll do that over time before I have to move into one myself. But at the end, I got to go to a lot of those old folks home. Sad to see they're just kind of forgotten.
Yeah, my grandmother wasn't one of those.
You know, the people who work there, like they care as much as they can. But in the end, that's not the people that they loved. Maybe again, like it's children that are living their lives or maybe everyone, their life is dead.
Yeah. Either way, that's a sad thought, right?
So, you know, you could bring people a little happiness.
Exactly. Let's do it. Let's actually volunteer.
Okay.
Because I would love that. I love being around older people. Honestly. Oh, yeah. It's it's great.
And they love being around younger people.
Yeah.
Yeah. It gives them life.
Definitely.
You should watch the Ted talk. I keep talking about.
Yeah, clearly. What is it?
I don't know. I've shared it with everyone. Yeah. Post on my Facebook, like, a jillion times. That There's a really good Ted talk or a lady. She wants to know why women outlive men around the world. And then it turns into her. Like finding Sardinia, where the women and men live the same age. And not only do they live the same age, they have the highest amount of centenarians. Yeah. Capita.
Yeah.
So now she's like, well, why is this place this special? So she spends like two years doing social research, and that's when she comes to the realization that longevity stems from social interaction.
Being social.
More than anything.
And that's why, you know, in the aftermath of Covid and everyone talking about being lonely and loneliness. And I think a lot of people got really used to too much comfort. But then also they got used to being alone and not realizing what that was actually doing to them. What? What not being around other people.
I mean, I still think people were dying, not so much from Covid, but just being alone from Covid.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, who's to say they could have just had Covid, but just been around a bunch of people and ended up fighting through it.
Right.
Because their body's like, whoa, you know. I see Meredith the next day, so that's cool.
Yeah. Right.
I'm not gonna let this cold take me down.
Yeah. That's true. I know it's wild because, you know, I lived in New York City during that time, but I had. I mean, I'm still friends with all of them, but I had such a great group of friends, which, you know, you've met them all, you know, at cheese and I.
Mean, we live a similar lifestyle.
Yeah.
That social.
Yeah. No, but that was even so even during Covid in New York City, where it was the epicenter, and all you heard were ambulances and sirens. That's the only sound you would hear. We'd find ways for all of us to, like, see each other still. And that really kept us, all of us going. Yeah, that's.
I didn't have discord. I wouldn't have made it through it.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
I would be dead today.
I know, so talk about talk about discord. Like how did it was during Covid when you you met a bunch of people. Yeah. Streaming and gaming.
One of the few hobbies you could do was play video games. And it happened to be social because a lot of games now are. There's voice chat through games, whether you're playing Minecraft or Fortnite or Call of Duty, you know there's always a way to talk to people. And then I also got into Twitch where you can watch other people game.
Yeah, I mean, Twitch was has has been big but during Covid it became massive, right?
Because everyone could just do their things. Just wasn't gaming anymore. You know people you know, people who were musicians who couldn't get gigs, they would do their music, they would DJ, they would play their guitar. I watch people do Japanese woodblock printing. You know, everything that people used to do outside their home. They had to bring people in so they can continue doing what they were good at or what they loved.
Yeah.
And it was cool. And through that, I just met a bunch of people that, you know, at first it was we met each other because we all played the same game. They already had groups on discord. So I just joined one and I happened to find one that was very social and I liked the people. And then we started talking. Oh, did you know it? One of them's a bartender, another one's a bartender. The other one's a teacher. Oh, well, I have friends that are teachers, you know, and obviously it's a couple people from the tech industry. I relate to that, too. And then you just, like, start finding and you just meet. It's just like meeting people.
Yeah. And, you know, you have friends all over the world now.
Now I.
Do. Yeah. And that's so cool. Yeah, just. And it's all because of Discord and Twitch, right?
I mean, we our group, there's like, a dozen of us. We joke that it's like pandemic wasn't too bad to us. Yeah, a lot of people suffered through the pandemic. Like we had some of our best times.
And it wouldn't have happened otherwise.
It wouldn't have happened otherwise. You know, discord isn't as active for us as a group, but now we have, you know, because we know each other's phone numbers, we can actually travel and see each other now and other ways to talk to each other. But, you know, we still jump in there once in a while. It's still just as fun as the day we met.
Yeah. So let's get into the future for Jocko. So I know you have a Paris trip planned. That's great. But you said you're kind of in a limbo phase, but especially some. I feel like you've now had these, you know, as we all do different chapters in our lives or starting new books in our lives. Yeah. Where do you feel like you are now? Are you starting a new chapter, a new book? What?
Yeah.
What are you.
Definitely a new chapter. The fact is, it's coming to a close. Yeah. Like there's this, you know, everyone's like, oh, you know, midlife crisis. I'm like, do you really know when your midlife is.
No. Good point. Like for some people it could have been 35. Yeah. Yeah.
You know, for everyone that died when they were 50, like their midlife was 25.
Yeah. Yeah.
You don't know when you're midlife. Not that it's around the corner, but, like, I'm not stupid. I know it's coming to an end. You know, maybe 30, maybe, if I'm lucky. But for sure, ten. I'm going to make the most of the next ten. That's all I, I'm really focused on all the things I never got to do. I denied myself buying a bed, traveling. If I want something and I'm going to just get it and do it. Yes, I have some inheritance, so I'm blowing it quickly, but I don't. I don't really care. I don't care what my friends tell me. You know who are like, oh yeah, you should invest and think about your future. I'm like, I'm in my future. I just watched like three of the adults in my youth all die in the last three months. I'm like, there's one person left in my childhood the adults want like of all the regular adults that were in my childhood growing up, there's only one left. Yeah, there's other adults in my life now.
But not from your childhood.
Not from my childhood.
So because your aunt also passed away. Correct? Yeah. And then who was the third person?
My uncle.
Your uncle? Okay.
Yeah. When I was growing up, it was two aunts. My uncle, my mom and my grandmother.
So did you have a father figure at all? Was your uncle your only father figure?
There was not a real male figure in my life. I laugh at this world of women empowering themselves. Oh, yes. Women have to be strong. I'm like, I don't know anything but strong women. When a tree or a bush need to be cut down in my backyard like my grandma didn't call anyone, she bought a fucking saw and did it herself. And it's not that she was raised that way like she used to tell me. Like they had maids and stuff that did all that stuff. But she didn't have that in America. So she was also like, I don't need to call a man to do this. Like, if I can pick it up myself, I'm going to do it. They never went to anyone for help except my uncle, and they really only went to him if they really, really needed to. Like they figured it out. Like, I remember coming in here and moving in a place with my mom and, like, the way all the shit was hung on the walls, I was like, oh, my God, this is dangerous. But it's because she just wanted to do it herself. Yeah, she didn't want help. So women don't need to be told to be strong. They've just got to be strong. It's up to them. No one told my mom or my grandmother to be the way they were. They never told me a story of like, oh, yeah, my mom used to. Oh, they just did it.
No, I love that.
I mean, it's great. Like, I love seeing women succeed in the world, but it's like, I also don't think. I think they just need to be themselves.
True. And not letting other people hold them back because of it, you know? And I think that's part of it, too. I'm a single mom who also. Yeah, I don't ask people to help me do things. I do it myself. And it's true, though, if I had if I was still married, would that be the case? I think it still would. But it's sometimes you find that comfort again of just like, oh, well, there's someone else here who could do it, but it. And I don't mean just things around the house, just it's like, do your own damn thing.
And I mean, you know, I'm an example of, like, I'm a man, but I can't fucking hang paintings. I still have people do it.
Yeah.
You know, so.
It don't matter.
Furniture together. You still call someone?
It doesn't matter what your gender is. Basically. Doesn't matter. Yeah.
It's just like, I don't I don't like doing it or don't want to do it or I'm not good at it. Yeah, yeah. You know.
That's the ticket.
You know, I have other skills in life. I'm going to focus on those skills.
Yeah.
And let someone else, like, be good at hanging my pictures of me. Yeah. You literally walk around here and be like, I know what he hung. He hangs paintings like his mother.
Okay. So. So traveling is, you know, something you want to do next? Is there anything else you want you've been thinking about you really want to do next or what?
More is there? Just keep meeting people and enjoying life. I mean.
Enjoying.
Life. I'm just going to keep doing what I've been doing. Yeah, it works itself out. Like.
Are you happy?
Very happy.
That's great.
You know, I'm glad. I mean, I feel like I do need to get a job, but not because I'm like, I need the money. It's more like, that's just another way to hang out and, you know. So just looking for the right job.
Yeah. And if you have time to find one that you really enjoy doing and that brings, you know, that makes you happy.
Yeah. It's the whole Marie Kondo thing brings.
Yeah. Does it bring joy?
Joy. Then do.
It. Then do it. Own it. Yeah. And if you can, take the time to find that too. I think too many people sometimes and I'm, I've done this myself. But I've recently figured out, you know, you don't just do something because you think you should. You need to find something that you want to do. And if you can, you know, I know that people are in situations where that's not necessarily possible, but why not try to make it possible? That's what I think. So yeah. So you definitely have had different times in your life. I know you've had, you know, your low times and.
We all.
Have in your happy times. Yeah. But I'm speaking to Jocko here. So you know.
Well I mean that's something that I try to teach people.
Which.
Which is like, don't don't sell your story short. I think a lot of people do that in their lives. And it makes me angry. And like, I like to help people, like, remind them that, like, you know, you. Yes, you're only this one person amongst a billion. And how many knows how many beings there are in this universe? But like, it's your life. Like you wrote that story. The story is amazing and you just have to, like, figure out how to tell it. If you can't tell it. Have someone help you tell that story and just appreciate your life.
That's perfect. No, I think we I think we should end it right there.
Okay.
Well, no. Did you want to say some more?
No, no. Do you have any sponsors that I need to know?
Are you kidding?
I don't know.
But that's a great way. That's a great way to end this.
You have no sponsor reads. This was brought to you by Liquid Death mountain water.
Well, if Liquid Death would love to sponsor me, that would be great.
I mean, I don't think they need sponsorship. I'm doing pretty good. I know.
I think so, too. But thank you so much for doing this.
You're welcome.
I appreciate.
You. I'm honored. I love you, too. Yeah.
And that's it.
All right.
We can just end it there.
Bye, everyone.
