Welcome to the Average 90s Gal Podcast. Join me as I share my own journeys through life, how I got and continue to get through them, as well as real stories from real people in this crazy world. Let's get through it together.
Welcome to part one of my conversation with Gina. This was an amazing conversation that went into body image, what it is like today, as well as what it was like for the two of us growing up, and then goes into what it is like to be a teacher today, navigating the education system, what she feels the education system should be, and then we dive into what it is like to advocate for your child at school and with the system when you have a child with autism, ADHD, anxiety, mental health issues. And I think listening to her whole journey as a teacher and as a parent is just so informative.
So whether you are on this journey with your own children, or if you know someone who is, I hope you take away so many bits of information and really amazing tips and tools that you can take away, and maybe someone you know can. So I hope you enjoy this conversation and stay tuned for part two, which will be published in a few days where we dive into more mental health, grief, and the loss of her father and everything that goes along with that. So I hope you enjoy this episode.
So first things I always like to ask my guests is which generation you're from. You could say your age if you want, or if you don't want. Where you grew up, your family dynamics, and your family origins, just start from there and we'll move on.
Okay, so I am Gen X, graduated 1992, high school. I have three siblings and I'm the oldest. My family is from, well, my mom's side of the family is from Germany and Switzerland.
My dad's side of the family is specifically from Sicily, Italian roots too. And then what was the? Oh, where you grew up. Where I grew up, so I grew up in Concord, California, Bay Area, born and raised, and here I am back there.
I went away a little bit for college, but then came back. Yeah, where did you go for college again? Loyola Marymount University. And for anyone listening, where is that? Los Angeles.
Yes, yes. So still California. Still California.
Through and through. Yes, and California girl. Now you said three siblings, but you're the oldest of three.
I'm the oldest of three. Okay, sorry, I meant two siblings. I'm the oldest of three.
Yes, yes. I just wanted to clarify that. No, no, it's sisters, right? Two sisters.
Yes. And one thing I want to go into real quick too is we both grew up in the 90s, you know, 80s and 90s. Right.
We both grew up in the Bay Area as everyone knows for me at least. And I feel like these days it's kind of going back to what it was like back then in terms of like now there's this whole culture around being skinny again, no longer leaving that like healthy body, being okay with your body kind of life, especially for women. I know it happens with men too, but girls and women.
And now today with social media, what skinny talk, you know, all of that. Yeah. I feel and perfectionism is coming back into our society.
So as someone who also grew up when I did around like body image and everything, what was that like for you? I think it's shaped who I am today. I mean, it was profound for me. I remember I was a dancer, started dancing when I was five and I'm shorter, I'm stockier.
I never, when I look at pictures of myself as a child, I was not fat by any means, but in my head growing up in that culture, that's how I thought I was. I thought I was always fat. I always saw myself as fat and it played itself out in ways that stopped me from doing things that I wanted to be able to do because of my body image.
And I still struggle with it today. I'm much better. But, you know, I remember a dance teacher saying, I had the talent to become a professional dancer.
That was my dream as a kid, but there was no way I could be a professional dancer because of my body. And that truly, truly impacted me and how I saw myself. And it's something that I fight and try to overcome.
And I've tried to not pass that to my kids. And yeah, it's a profound, and I'm very sad that that's coming. That's something that's coming back, especially for women and girls.
Yeah, me too. Like, it's something that I was on a diet when I was in high school, you know? And because my dance teachers were like, I wasn't a twig, but I was muscular. Yeah, you were healthy, probably.
Yes, right. And I wasn't, by any means, I wasn't skin and bones, but I definitely was not obese or overweight, looking back at pictures. And it's also played out like that whole like, what's the term? The self-fulfilling prophecy.
Because in my head, I'm thinking I'm overweight. And so I'm dancing. I majored in dance in college, so I was dancing five to six hours a day.
The minute I stopped dancing that amount, my body did, like, I still ate the way I ate. And I became what I had, in my mind, I became what I was overweight for much of my adulthood. Even, you know, I lost a lot of weight, but I still could lose a few pounds if I wanted to be super healthy.
But I've come to a level more of acceptance of me, of who I am now, but it's been a struggle for years. My whole life. I feel like so many of us who grew up in that generation, especially, I mean, I know it continues through generations.
Don't get me wrong. But yeah, same thing. Like, I feel like back then, too, it really was, it was more about magazines.
And what was in the magazines? What was the norm? What was on MTV? What was on, you know? But then now, I mean, I think, too, about what it would have been like if we had social media. That would have just been- I think I would have been destroyed. Seriously.
So I really do feel. But once again, I know boys experience, you know, eating disorders and body image issues as well. But girls, I really feel for girls.
I mean, it did push, it's my whole family. Like my mom has the same issues. My sisters struggle with different things around food and body image and that whole thing.
But it's all about the societal, what's accepted in society. And what, it also is cultural, too. Because I find that, like, as a teacher in a very diverse area in San Ramon, very, lots of Indian and Asian culture.
But more, not, more the Southeast Asian. I'm not talking about like China and that. But more like Middle Eastern and even Northern Africa.
The acceptance of different body types is much different than what United States has. And so, in fact, just at, we had a multicultural night at our school and we were all dressed up in saris. And I was, it all came back to me from when I was young about, oh my God, what am I gonna, what is my body gonna look like in a sari? I've never been in a sari.
And I was talking to some of the parents who were Indian, brought all the culture. And they're like, Gina, you're gonna look great in it. And I was like, I was sharing my insecurities with them about my body and being in something that I've never been in before.
And they're like, your body's beautiful the way it is. Like, these parents of my students are telling me, what are you talking about? You're gonna look, you know, your body is beautiful just the way it is. And they put that sari on me and I actually felt good in it.
Like, I felt comfortable and I did feel good. Like, I felt good in it. And it was just a different feeling than I think what I would have, like what I felt, I remember going back to high school when I had to put on a certain costume to go on stage to dance in, it was very different.
I did not feel comfortable having to put on certain costumes to then, you know, show my body in. And this was a very different, and I think it was culture, a lot of it was cultural driven. Like just, you know.
And you had people telling you, you're gonna look beautiful and amazing. That was the thing too, I have to say too, I feel like I did not have enough people in my world to tell me, you look perfect the way you are. Right, you are fine the way you are.
You look fine. Right. You are healthy.
It's not about being skinny. And that's- It's about being healthy. It's the focus on image, right? In the society, it's the focus on what your body looks like and the body shaming that happens and what you're supposed to look like and what beauty really is.
It's all, you know, it kind of ties in with everything, the material, the capitalism, money, all these image driven things. All of it, yeah. All of it.
And what drives it. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, thanks for sharing. Of course. You know, since the podcast is called The Average 90s Gal Podcast, I like to talk about what it was like to grow up in the 90s.
Right. And it's just so prevalent right now. Right.
So thanks for talking about that. And you mentioned, and I'm so glad you mentioned being a teacher because I would love for you to talk about, well, I feel like there's so many things, but what is it like being a teacher right now? And well, first of all, what do you teach and what grades? Okay, so I'm a science specialist in the San Ramon Valley and elementary school. So our school is a pretty good size elementary school.
So there's two science teachers. So I primarily teach second, third and fifth grade science. And then my partner teaches the first and fourth grade.
Teaching has changed a lot since I first started teaching. And which was, when did you start? So I started in 2002 and it's my second career. So I didn't start teaching.
Like I went back to, my major was in business and dance, double major. Business was not my thing. And went back to school and passionate and loved teaching.
Although I have lots of opinions about the system of education in the United States, the way it is now. But it's very different than, I think a lot of ways the district that I'm in is very progressive. And we have changed as much as we can within the system to be very inclusive and build acceptance and all of that.
But I have to say that the climate of our society now, since COVID, we are seeing the amount of mental health challenges that kids are facing, which then it shows up in their behaviors. So the challenges of dealing with some very big emotions and big behaviors, the racial slurs and those kinds of bullying things that are happening a lot more in elementary school that I'd never seen before prior to what we're seeing in this country now. So the N word is very, I mean, first graders are saying this just out in the blue, or writing it on name tag.
Like I turn over a name tag and there it is. And so it's very disheartening, I have to say, to see, and it's just goes to show you that what we model in our government, in our world, as parents, as teachers, these kids are watching us. And if it's accepted in our government, then they think that it's okay.
And so it's really hard, like in elementary school, we really use those instances as learning experiences for them because usually in elementary school, they are mimicking what they are seeing and hearing. It's usually not, that's how they truly feel. But if it's not addressed in middle school, and then also with the families, and it continues, then you have kids, we have kids from high school coming onto our campus, like after school, because we have a big play structure and everything, and kids come off, and they're coming in and brandishing knives and calling my son the N word when he's playing on the playground, and you know.
Really? Yeah, Cameron's had to, we've had to get, this one kid has come and bullies these little kids and he thinks it's fun, and it's hard, like he's at the age where he should know that that's not. And so then it's hard to know where, that it's not really a learning experience for him. There's more deep-seated issues happening.
So with all of that, does that also mean it's really hard to teach a kid, these kids in class, with everything happening? Yeah, it's very difficult, and it's very, I've really had to shift, so my whole mantra is that it's gotta be connection over compliance, because you have to really connect with these kids in order for them to feel trust and safe in your classroom so that they can access their learning. And we have kids coming to us that are homeless, we have kids coming to us that are now facing deportation. I mean, these stresses that these little kids are experiencing, this is real, and it's not so much about learning two plus two anymore.
We've gotta connect with these kids and really get to them and know they're not gonna learn when they have all these stresses. And my whole thing is like, I had a kid come to me and he couldn't sit in a chair and he's roaming all over the classroom, and my focus was not to make him sit in the classroom and learn science. My focus was, I need to connect with this kid, he needs to trust me, he needs to know I'm here for him.
And then by the end of the year, he's participating, and when he's ready, he's coming, he's engaging in the learning when he's ready, not when I'm forcing it on him. And so it's hard as a teacher because we also have, I'm later in my career, I'm tenured, I have a lot more leeway where I can say, I know what's best for this kid, but newer teachers coming in, you gotta teach the standards, and that's where I have issues with the system. Like, this kid's not ready to learn about the ecosystem right now.
He is, his family's facing deportation. Okay, so that is a lot more important in his world right now than learning about an ecosystem. And he'll probably learn about that if he needs to at some point in his life.
Yeah, and like you said, there's also some, that's gonna block him from learning. Exactly. If there are these family stressors happening, and that's true with every single kid, like you said, if there's abuse happening, if there's something going on, everybody just, sometimes, I've seen this as well, like just labels a kid as being a bad kid that gets bad grades and doesn't listen and doesn't pay attention.
Well, where's the why? Exactly. Right? Exactly. What's the reason for these behaviors? The majority, and especially in elementary school, the majority of these behaviors are not because they're disrespectful or because they're rude or because they're defiant.
It shows up that way, and we, as adults in this society, perceive it that way, but that is not the basis for these behaviors. And if you don't connect with a kid and find out where these big behaviors are coming from, then they're just gonna fall into that trap, and then they are beginning to be defiant, and they are gonna just rebel because no one's understanding them. You have to take the time to understand them, and when they feel understood and they feel like you're in their corner and supporting them and not judging them, then you're gonna be more successful.
And so, as a teacher, and like you said, even teachers coming in and things like that, so, because some people may be thinking, well, then how do you then grade that kid and give that kid a grade, and they pass if they're not, like, how do you get through that in a regular? Because you have to be able to assess in multiple ways. You cannot just, say, assess a kid by just giving them a test on a piece of paper and grading a paper. And the points, like it's just the points.
It's not, you have to look at my observations. Is he answering the question? Like, this kid who's not sitting in his chair and seemingly is not paying attention would, after a couple weeks in class, pop his head up over a table and raise his hand and answer a question. And I'm like, oh.
So he is grasping something of what is happening in the classroom, and I'm not focusing on the behavior of him having to sit in a chair. I'm letting him be comfortable and get acclimated to his new setting and his new, and then when he feels comfortable, he's able to engage. So you have to be able to assess a kid, like I said, not just by paper and pen and a test.
It has to be on multiple levels, on engagement. And, you know, in elementary school, it's very standards-based. So it's not a point system.
It's not ABC, you know. So it's more of like, are they working towards the standard? Are they making progress? That's right, it's all about the level. It's all about that, and I like that better in elementary school especially.
And if they meet the standard, but you, like I said, it's gotta be multiple means of assessment. It's not just, it's observation. It's like watching them work in a group, watching them communicate, and not just written communication.
I have lots of kids where I read the test to them because I'm not teaching them reading. If they can't read a test, that doesn't mean they don't know science, right? So if I can read it to them, and they can answer my question around the science topic, then they are proficient in science. So you have to make sure that you're assessing what you're teaching.
Like when you're giving a written test, you're not just assessing their science content. You're assessing whether they can write, whether they can read and understand. So you have to make sure your assessments are appropriate for the students that you are assessing.
And you have multiple levels, and you have to, that's why I'm always on about connection, connecting. I have about 450 students that come into my classroom on a weekly basis. And I feel like one of my strengths is that I get to know these kids.
And the kids that don't need me to connect as much, I don't have to connect as much, but there are those kids that that's what they need. And so those are the kids I connect with where they need it. But you're figuring it out.
You figure it out. And like those kids that are cool with just, I always greet the kids and I always greet them by name and then say goodbye to them. And they have a choice on whether to give me a high five, handshake, or hug, or a fist bump.
Sometimes they do that. And that's how I, some kids, that's all the connection they need, which is great. And then once I get to know them, but there's some kids that need much more than that.
They need check-ins during the period, or they need me to read the instructions for them, or they need a partner to help them. I mean, lots of language learners too, where like- Of course. So yeah.
It's about connecting and relationship building. Yeah. And so you're clearly a really amazing teacher.
So I wish my kid had you as a teacher. I mean, there's always gonna be good teachers and bad teachers in our lives, obviously. So a few things come to my brain, but one is what would you like to see happen in the education system of this country? What do you think needs to? At least the top three, maybe.
You know, it's interesting. I go back to even thinking about my own World Civ teacher, Mr. Clare. I don't know if you remember Mr. Clare.
Of course I remember Mr. Clare. And I remember him saying in one of our classes, like, learning about government and learning about world civilizations and how children are the ones that have the least rights and have the most control over them. And then you're gonna look into like all the different levels, right? Like, you know, based on race, based on gender, based on whatever.
So there is so, we control so much of these kids that now they're getting to the point where they cannot think for themselves. They cannot make decisions. They don't know how to make decisions because they don't have autonomy.
They don't have choice. I'm sure we're gonna get into this topic, but if I want public education to model more of the school that my son David is going to, which is more of a democratic, where these kids meet every week. They have an assembly.
They talk about the issues that are happening in their school. They discuss solutions. They vote.
They have a say in how their school is run and what they're learning and how they're learning it. And it has been transformational for David. Not just because he's autistic and has ADHD and has some challenges, but just on that basic human level.
Yes, as adults, we think these kids, they don't have the experience. They don't have the wisdom. They don't, but they have feelings.
They have the same feelings that we have. Yeah. And if we don't give them the opportunity to try and make these mistakes and we're telling them what to do, we have these people that do not know how to work with each other, don't know how to communicate.
And that's what needs to happen in the school system. These kids need to have more autonomy, more control of their own education about what they learn. They're told what they have to learn.
Especially when you're getting into middle and high school, when you have to take these certain classes, this whole concept about being a well-rounded person. The people in this country that are the innovators, the engineers, those people are not well-rounded people. Those people are hyper-focused and experts in an area.
And I'm not sure there's something bad about that. Right? No, not if, yeah. Like why, you know, they need to, so why does someone like David, that's hard for David to get, like why do I need to learn about this when that, that's not what I'm interested in learning about.
Yeah, when that doesn't apply to me. It doesn't apply to me. It doesn't apply to my life.
Yeah. And if there's a time when it then does come, we're at a stage in technology where he can look it up in an instance. Yeah.
And figure it out. Figure it out. Education cannot be about teaching facts and concepts anymore.
It has to be, we are now like guiders of helping kids learn how to learn, learn how to find their passions, learn how to work together and set goals. And that's where we have to go. And they have to have some control and autonomy and choice about it.
Yeah. And that's where our system is failing because, and that's where we're seeing so many kids, school refusal, so many kids that are dropping out because they're not understood. They're being forced to do, to learn in a way that doesn't work for them or learn things that don't apply to their life.
Yeah. And yeah. And how much do you think also does have to do with the world has changed? Oh, absolutely.
The internet is there. Like you said, chat GPT is around now. AI and- We don't have to teach these concepts.
Yeah. So now that the world has changed, why hasn't education changed with it, right? It's very, and it's always, education's always slow to catch up to that. But it's very apparent that that's what, I mean, because that's the uptick of behaviors too, I think.
Yeah. Because there's only so much like, and the amount of pressure we put on these kids and the competition to get into certain colleges. And that's the other thing.
Like, you know, it's like, why is college the only successful, the only perceived successful path? Like if you're gonna be successful in the United States, you have to go to college. I'm sorry, but that's a bunch of BS. It is.
And I think that's actually changing too. Yeah, I'm hoping. It's starting to.
Because, you know, I mean, that's not everyone's path anymore, should it be? And we have to, I mean, we're seeing it now with like, you know, the migrant workers, how important they are to our economy and to our world. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
And on the college thing as well, I mean, like you said, it isn't for everybody, but yet, and this is where I think in the workforce is changing a little bit too. And I hope it's gonna keep changing where on a job application, it doesn't say just for an admin level, you have to have a BA. Well, you know, it's so funny.
Like, you know, when I have conferences, when I first started teaching in San Bernardino, very competitive, education's very, you know, they think test scores are the, you know, it's very a big thing. And test scores are meaningless to me. Meaningless, honestly.
Oh yeah, that doesn't tell you. It doesn't tell you about the person. It tells them that they can take a test.
That's what it tells you. Yeah, oh great, they can click, you know, A, B, or C. They're good at deciphering how to take a test. Yeah.
That's what it tells you. But I had, I remember when I first started teaching there and I was blown away because I was in a conference and the kid was average, you know, he was making, he was proficient. I mean, he wasn't like top of the class, but he was doing fine.
And I had no issues, I had no concerns about his progress or anything. And the mother was mortified that he didn't, like I gave him in elementary school grades, a two means like you're progressing towards a standard. And this was at the beginning of the year.
So they're not even, the expectation isn't, they're supposed to meet the standard by the end of the year. So in the beginning of the year, a two is like, he's making progress. That's great.
He's on track. He's on the path. He's on the path, right? She was so upset because he didn't have a three.
He wasn't proficient yet. And I said, we're at the beginning of third grade. Like I haven't taught everything yet.
We haven't, you know, like he's okay. It's okay, right? He's third grade and she's freaking out because he's got to get into Stanford. This is an eight year old.
And I looked at her and I said, I'm pretty sure when he applies to college, they don't ask him what his reading level was in third grade to get into college. These kids, I mean, honestly, really? Yeah, I mean. And I tell that to parents all the time.
Like, do they ask you, oh, when did you learn to read? Was it kindergarten or first grade? Yeah. These kids learn at different paces and it's okay. We have second graders that are still struggling and parents are freaking out.
I asked you that if you don't put that much pressure on them to learn it right then, when their brain is ready to learn it, then they will learn it. It will. It will.
You know, like, so all of this is like this pressure to kindergarten used to be play and now it's academic. We're reading, like these kids need to learn how to play. We need to model our education around the Scandinavian countries where they just play until second grade.
And they need to learn how to get along with each other. And these Scandinavian don't have standardized testing. And what we're seeing is happier, healthier, less mental health issues as adults, productive, happy people.
And isn't that what we want? Isn't that what we want? But see, it's our value system. We're focused so much on the best of everything and doing it first. And no, do it when your brain is ready, your brain will learn it.
Yeah, yeah. And also play brings about imagination, innovation. Play is learning.
That's how kids learn. Exactly. It's through play.
And that's why I think I love my position teaching so much because as a science lab teacher, we play. We are doing experiment. We are playing.
And they learn through their observations and they're building and they're creating and they're creating engineering projects. And if they don't work the first time, we celebrate it. Hey, what did you learn? How can we make it better next time? And it's a celebration of it didn't work.
Okay, now, but I can figure out why it didn't work. Exactly, especially in science, right? You can be like, well, okay. So why didn't it work? Why did that one work but this one didn't? And there's a learning moment.
There's the learning right there. It's not about getting it right. It's not about being perfect the first time.
And we have it really backwards in this country. Yeah. Agreed.
And it's hard being in a system that I love teaching if it's done the right way, but it's hard to be then I'm also trying to work within a system that is very different and trying to advocate not just for me as a teacher, but for my students and for my own kids. For your own kids, yeah. And yeah.
Yeah. So it's hard in that sense. And have parents changed as well? Oh, entitlement, can I just say? Entitlement is very, you know, but then again, I'm gonna have to say too, like, you know, they question a lot, which is their right.
And I think teachers need to, because I question too, as a parent. Yeah. It's actually not just my right.
I think it's my responsibility, right? As a parent, as a teacher. And so I try to look at that more when parents are questioning me, not as putting me down like as in my knowledge and questioning my professionalism or my expertise, more of, okay, I need to connect with them because they're not understanding what I'm trying to do here. And like I said, it's all about connecting.
So when you understand where a parent's coming from, it may feel like they're attacking you, but if you really look in and take a step back, put your ego aside and say, they just care about their own kid. Just concerned. It may be coming out in a way that's triggering me, but then that's my responsibility to be like, I need to figure out where this parent is coming from and then help them to understand where I'm coming from so they can see that.
And nine times out of 10, that works. There's, you know, and it's the same. It's just the same with like, people need to feel understood and they need to be able to, like, I don't look at, I used to look when I was younger in my career, they're questioning my expertise, but I wasn't, it's because I was insecure and I'm a new teacher and I'm questioning my own expertise.
Yeah, of course, right? You're new. It's like I'm new, right? And so as you grow professionally and in the profession and you observe and then you have your own kids too, I think that's changed me as a teacher as well for the better. Like learning, you have to be a teacher.
I'm not the one with all the answers, right? These kids teach me a hell of a lot and my own kids do too. And if I'm not willing to learn from them and think I know all the answers, then I'm no benefit to anyone at all, right? And so it's all about building those relationships, understanding where people are coming from and then trying to just, you know, learn how to communicate that. And we're all have the same goal.
We all want these kids to succeed. It's just helping everyone to be on the same page for how to help them. Yeah, and so the connection part is the students and the parents.
Exactly. All together. Everybody.
It's all of it. It's gotta be all of it. That's great, that's great.
Yeah, so speaking of your kids, so you have two boys. Yes, I do. And how ages? Yeah, David is 14 and Cameron's 10.
Oh my gosh, Cameron's 10. Yes, I know. Last year of elementary school coming out.
It's wild. It's crazy. Yeah.
And so anyone listening, my son is also 14. So they're only- It's an interesting time. I know.
And I will say too that I am, it's so nice having a boy and not a girl. Oh, I've- I mean, like what we were talking about before, like even though boys, yes, go through it. And once again, it's still important that we emulate what we want our kids to- To view and see and experience.
I'm just so glad it's not a girl. I just have to throw that out there, so. Well, it's interesting, like, you know, the girl drama that we see, even in elementary school, is insane.
Well, when I think about the girl drama I even experienced in middle school, and you know- Boys are just much more easygoing. Yeah, because if they have drama, they forget about it the next day. Girls hold a grudge.
Oh my Lord, do girls hold a grudge? So yeah, I'm sure you see it even earlier than when we were growing up, probably. Definitely. So yeah, so you already spoke about David and also because Donovan has ADHD.
He also has dyscalculia and dysgraphia, so learning issues. And so being in the school system, and once again, like we mentioned before, just advocating for your kid and the importance of that, and that just getting an IEP, it doesn't stop there. And so would you just, for anyone who is listening, and we'll get into your whole journey and story as well, but I really, since we were discussing teachers and the education system, if there is someone listening right now who notices neurodivergence in their children or learning, any kind of learning issues, or they've gotten the IEP, but nothing's happening, what would you say to a parent of what they should first do? What's the first thing they should do? Connect, and here is just connecting with the teacher and really, and as a parent, if you're seeing, the first line is the teacher, and you're gonna connect with the teacher, and you're gonna do your best to approach the teacher in a non-attacking, non-judgmental way.
And if you're not feeling like you're being understood and your child's still not being understood, I say raise it to the next level, and you can always do this. There's always school advocates and things in the district that you can reach out to. I just always say to do it in a way where it comes from concern and not like, like I said, not a non-attacking way.
Yeah, attacking, yeah. You will be much more successful in that, and you will not get as much pushback, and you still may not like the answer, and you still may not agree, but you can still advocate, and I had to do that within my own school system for my own son, right? And so that was challenging, but if you're persistent, and you are firm, but you're still coming at a place of care and concern and not judging, but saying, I know you're trying, but this is not working for my kid, there's advocates that you can always, but I always say you gotta come from your heart. You gotta come from connecting and a place of non-judgment and saying, I'm just trying to help.
This is not working for my son. He's not being understood, and do your research. So if you have to do your research on like, you know, what is he experiencing, what type of neurodivergent, get your child diagnosed if that's what you need to do first.
So an assessment. An assessment, all those things, you know, build yourself with knowledge and approach it in a way of concern and care, and like, I wanna work with you to help my kid. I'm not here to attack you and say you're not doing a good job with, you know, but whatever's happening is not working for my kid.
Yeah, and start there. And start there. Yeah.
Yeah. And then continuing to advocate. So I think we both have had these experiences and I've even reached out to you before where I saw a teacher just not even doing what was on Donovan's IEP.
And what's an IEP? Just for anyone. It's an Individual Education Plan, and it's for any student that has had a diagnosed learning disability or also emotional, like mental health type. It's any child, it's a legal document that they have certain rights for special education.
Yeah. And I knew you'd explain it better than I would. And it's usually, so you have a meeting with the school and usually a case manager and everything, and to go over what for that semester that your child needs in the classroom for each class.
So I noticed a certain teacher was not even doing any of those things. And so then I had to constantly advocate and go to the case manager and go, you know. And finally it was happening, but I do just want anyone listening right now, and I'm sure you'd want to, if you want to speak to this as well, just don't give up.
Exactly. Because I think a lot of parents, I've heard of parents who just kind of say, well, it's there that they must be doing it. Well, if you're noticing that your kid is really having trouble or grades are dropping or any kind of sign, that it's okay to reach out to the teacher, to reach out to the case manager.
It's okay, it's your responsibility. It really is. And it's not like, I would say anyone that approaches me is not going to get pushed back.
I'm going to listen, but you're going to come up with teachers who will not. And I don't agree with that, but that's just how it is. But you have the control in your power for how you approach the situation.
And that's what I would just say. You're just don't go in guns blazing and accusatory. You're not going to get, when you do that, especially to teachers that are resistant in implementing things that they are supposed to be implementing, if you approach someone like that, they're not going to be even more willing to then give you what your kid deserves.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's going to be a fight, even more so. Then it really ultimately, it hurts the kid because the kid has to be in that class with that teacher all day or for a period or whatever grade level they're in.
And so not condoning what the teacher is doing, but when you look at your final result and like, this is going to affect my kid, how can I approach the situation so it benefits me? Because if I come fight and I'm going to fight this teacher, you don't know what the teacher's going to say to your kid when they're in their classroom. How is your kid going to be treated ultimately? Because of something you did. You know? And like I said, that's not the right, it's not right and I don't condone that.
But if you can just step back and be like, but how is this going to affect my kid? Yeah. And start from there before you say anything. Right.
That's a really good advice. And with anything, right? It's with anything, right. And don't go guns a blazing on anything you do.
Like step back for a second. Right. And think about it and like get past those emotions.
Cause like, you know, mama bear comes out with your kid. Right? Of course. You hurt my kid.
You're hurting me. I mean, I know what that is on a parent level. And I also know what that's like from a teacher, a parent coming to me as the mama bear.
And so understanding that, yes, teachers are professionals. Yes, we have an education. Yes, we have a lot of expertise and knowledge.
But like I said, we don't know everything and it's okay to question it. I think it's all in the approach and how you will question and how you say, you know, I'm just trying to understand why you're doing something this way. Like if you come at it this way, instead of, why are you doing this? It's ridiculous.
You know, what's the purpose of this? Like there's different ways to approach it, which is going to get you a better response from the teacher. Sure. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. And I also think too, it's just always important. And I mean, you could say whether you agree with me or not as a teacher, but thanking the teacher.
Appreciation goes a long way. Appreciation goes a long way, right? I mean, I would, I mean, even if I would be a pissy, I also at the end of it, you always say thank you for everything you're doing because I get that what you do is extremely difficult. It's an acknowledgement too.
I mean, in a profession where we don't get that a lot, you know, we don't, we get the appreciation from the kids in a different way. I mean, you know, but we're always, we're always having to fight with our union. We're always having to fight for a living wage.
Just for a living wage. I'm not trying to fight to be rich and, you know. A living wage.
A living wage in the Bay Area. You know, our district was really close to striking again this year, you know. And it is frustrating, I have to say.
And I will also acknowledge, like, you know, there are teachers that make it harder for those of us that do our job and go above and beyond because there are teachers out there that don't. And we'll do the bare minimum if the bare minimum, right? Yeah, and then there's all the in-between. And there's all the in-between, so it's really hard.
You know, like, so like you said, any kind of appreciation or acknowledgement, especially from parents and the kids, mean the world. I always say, you know, when I get gifts at the end of the school year, it's not the gift cards or the bugs that I keep or appreciate the most. It's the little notes from my students or even a parent that just, you know, those are the things that mean the most to me.
And it doesn't cost you anything. So, yeah. It's a note.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that's fantastic. So why don't we move on to the journey with David? Yeah, and let's start with, he has autism.
Can you tell me what he's been like now? He's been diagnosed with autism. So, it was initially he was diagnosed with ADHD early on in elementary school, around kindergarten, he was diagnosed. I always suspected that he was on the spectrum and we could always go into the healthcare system.
Oh, gosh. Fighting the healthcare system. There's a whole other story, but I'm not a expert in that.
But, you know, he was assessed and said he's not autistic because he doesn't meet the typical. He makes eye contact and he can talk. And, you know, he's not, he's, you know, autism is a spectrum.
And what I've learned in my research on it and learning more about it is that kids that are identified as higher functioning, I hate saying functioning, but higher, that's what, that's the term that the medical profession uses. But really is that David has learned to mask a lot of his struggles out in public. And then when he's in his safe place at home, those things come out.
So, it's more of a high masking. If you see a high functioning autistic person, they're able to mask what society doesn't consider normal or typical, because if he did some of the things he does at home that he does out in public, he would be scrutinized. So.
And in kindergarten, he was doing that already? He was, it was more acting out elopement. You know, we really struggled with whether or not to start medication. And we ended up having him start medication in first grade because the impulsivity, his ability to, his frontal lobe of his brain was not able to identify safety issues.
And so the impulsivity overtook that in his nervous system. And he would try to jump out of the car on the freeway. And so when his safety was getting, it was impacting it severely.
Yeah. Is when we then decided to look more into medication and we really got lucky with a really amazing psychiatrist who honored and understood the struggle to put your child on medication at such a young age, but then also provided us with real numbers and data to show that when you do not medicate, at some point they will self-medicate. Because even though it looks like these kids are out of control and defiant and everything, they have a ton of remorse after when they look back.
When their nervous system is calm and they're regulated and they look back at what they did, the shame, the remorse for whatever the behavior cause is intense. And as they get older, they're going to look for other ways to self-medicate to not have those shaming feelings. To basically numb the memory, basically.
Exactly, basically. And so we had a psychiatrist who kind of explained that to us which then made me feel better about putting him on it. The numbers were showing that kids, teenagers that were diagnosed with ADHD and not put on medication were the ones that were seeking out drugs and those kinds of things.
More all the numbers. All the numbers, alcohol, whatever, right? So it helped him to function in a system that is not set up for him. And although I have to say that he had amazing teachers in elementary school and he, to this day, will say he loves all his teachers and goes back there and visits them.
And it was at this, he went to my school where I teach. Yeah, in Sturgis-Cameron. In Sturgis-Cameron, yeah.
And I mean, I'm, I cannot think of one bad teacher at our school. It's an amazing place and I'm very lucky to work there. And he had some incredible educators that he still is in contact with to this day.
Because we focus, one of our sayings at our school are all our kids are all our kids. So even if you're not in my class, if I see you struggling at recess, I'm gonna go and help you and I'm gonna connect. It's all about connection, like I said.
And he felt very connected to all his teachers, really good friends still from there. And so that was, he still struggled. He still struggled in elementary school, but he had, he knew he was, he knew he was cared for.
He knew his teachers loved him. He knew that they were trying to help him even though he struggled. COVID hit and that was interesting.
And in the infinite wisdom of the district, they were going, because he's a transfer student, because, oh, San Ramon's not our home. Your actual, yeah. Our actual home school.
They were going, because they had too many quote unquote special ed students, they didn't have enough, they were gonna deny him his transfer because he was special ed. And in retrospect, looking back, there's a lawsuit right there waiting to happen. But in the moment we were faced with COVID, I was, my anxiety levels were so high.
I was just trying, I was focused on, at that, in that moment, getting my kid to, like, I could not imagine him starting at a new school with no one that he knows, now online, I'm now teaching online, there's just no way he would have been, you know, anyone that knows ADHD kids, transitions, change are extremely difficult. It was already gonna be difficult with doing online school at all, right? So I was trying to keep as much the same for him as we could. So we opted at that point to let go of his IEP because I also knew the teachers at the school and I knew that they were gonna give him the accommodations that he needed, regardless of whether he had the document or not.
So I had that advantage knowing that. I had, my principal was like, Gina, you know we're gonna do what he needs anyways, right? Like, so in essence, I did have, like, not many parents have that option, which I know I have that advantage. However, then, so we opted to let go of his IEP at that point.
In fifth grade, so his fourth grade teacher opted to loop, which means she takes the fourth grade class and she teaches fifth grade, that's the same class, same group of kids to fifth grade. So, which was amazing for David. Yeah, for him.
And she was, she's an incredible teacher and it was a great group of kids. He's that, like, that's the group of kids that he still has friends from. And so it was amazing to go back now into when the next year after COVID with the same group of kids, the same teacher, and now we're integrating back, going to school every day.
We're in school now, right? We still did not have the IEP, but she was making all kinds of accommodations regardless. At this point though, I'm also picking up, he's starting to do more of the, like, stimming type things when anxiety was really creeping in for him and he wasn't, and like, shutting down and not being able, like, his nervous system would just freeze. He'd go to flight or freeze or fight sometimes or where he'd, like, have, like, major meltdowns and blowouts.
So we were kind of trying to manage his anxiety, but then I'm noticing a lot more autistic type traits. And like I said, I'd been monitoring that. Like, I had my suspicions as he was going and then as he's getting older, seeing more of it.
Yeah, and what were they? So he does, when he gets excited, when his nervous system is activated, he, like, you know, he'll flap his hands. He'll do, he gets really loud, really, really loud. But then also the whole sensory thing, too.
A lot of the sensory stuff started to pick up. And, you know, this is as he's approaching puberty, too. So now his body chemistry- Well, I was gonna say, the chemistry is changing.
It's changing. Like, rapid fire, right? So here's what, so what's happening is he's not able to mask as much. He's not able to mask those things.
He's not able to control his nervous system as much. In a setting that is expecting that he needs to, right? So now we're seeing these, like, you know, flapping of hands and drum, like he would drum, like, you know, the drumming and drumming and making noises. And then the sensory sensitivities around, like, he, loud noises are fine, but there's specific tones and pitches that, like, the bells at school really would set off- Trigger.
Trigger or something. His nervous system set off, yeah. So all those things were increasing.
And I'm like, you know, I really, really, really am feeling like he's on the spectrum. And so I started doing more research on it. Your gut was, like, screaming at you, right? Yes, saying, you know, he's got to be, you know? And there's also, you know, so in my research coming across another subcategory of autism called PDA, which is pathological demand avoidance.
And it's recognized a lot more in Europe than it is here in the United States. But I was able to find a psychologist, because Kaiser would not do this, but, and so we had to pay out of pocket. But like I said, my end result was the benefit of my kids.
So we met with a psychologist. She was affirming of these different subtypes of autism that now there's been a lot of research coming up. It's not in the diagnosis manual yet, but there's a lot of research and a lot of things coming up.
And so in the United States, what you can do, you can give a primary diagnosis of autism with a PDA profile, which it has this demand avoidance. So whenever, like, a demand is placed, and it can be an outside demand, or it can be even internal demand. Some people, internal demands of, like, eating, they, like, resist eating because it's a demand and their nervous system shuts down.
Just says nope. Just says nope, and they will refuse to eat. And it's not, it's out of their control.
It's a nervous system response. Wow. So David does not have it that severe.
There are people, it's like, it's a spectrum, just as, it's also a spectrum. But he was then diagnosed through this psychologist with ADHD, autism, with this PDA profile, and also OCD, which kind of accompany, like, these comorbidities that accompany a lot of the autism. I really feel like his anxiety and depression, that is kind of like a side effect of the, of the autism and the ADHD, I think in the primary, and then having to live in a society that is not set up for people like him, or neurodivergent people in general, brings on all of these other mental health issues.
And so now we're approaching middle school with this diagnosis, and me knowing, and me learning more about this demand avoidance, and him having to now change teachers for each class. Oh my gosh, periods. Periods, you know, and.
A nightmare. A nightmare. And he doesn't have his IEP anymore, right? Like, I immediately go into the mode of, I'm going to advocate for a 504, which is kind of a level, it's a document, legal document as well, but it's a level below an IEP, where, you know, certain accommodations, and a lot of ADHD kids have a 504, because you can't necessarily just get an IEP with ADHD diagnosis.
You have to have like actual learning kind of, or an emotional mental health type of disability for an IEP. So me knowing that, and knowing the system, I was like, he needs to have some kind of support. And knowing that he has to take medication at school, I knew that that would qualify him for a 504, and we could add in some of these other things, accommodations that I knew, just as a basis.
And my plan was then to pursue getting his IEP back, which I knew was going to be a fight, because once you lose it, it's hard. Yeah, yeah. That's the one thing I was always told.
Like, just make sure you don't lose it as he moves on. So we got the 504 at the end of fifth grade. Oh, you did, okay.
Which was, you know, to get into middle school. And then, unfortunately, you know, teachers can make or break the situation. And middle school is very, very different than elementary school.
One of my gripes is that it's like, all of a sudden they're expected to be these independent, responsible. I mean, literally, three months ago they were in fifth grade, and now you're expecting them to- Especially sixth grade. I know.
In sixth grade, it's- They're babies still. I mean, they're babies all the way into high school. So like, honestly, like, really, what are we, the expectations on these kids, especially neurodivergent kids and special ed kids? And, you know, it's like way too much for David's nervous system to even process.
And he had a teacher that, which was his core teacher, which ended up being three periods. I was gonna say, and that's more periods, right? He was with her for several periods, who made things extremely worse for him. And, you know, I normally don't badmouth teachers.
And I would, whenever David would, well, first of all, David didn't tell us for a long time. He was trying to manage it. We didn't know about some of the things happening for several months until suicidal thoughts were happening, self-harm was happening.
And I would get an email almost every day from this teacher just about nitpicky things, you know, like things that like even I wouldn't expect from a neurotypical student. Like he didn't put a Post-it on the right page in his notebook. And he, you know, when I'd get some of his rubrics back, like he didn't put the page number down.
I'm like, oh my God, in the grand, we're talking, you know, the struggles that David has. Yeah, and you're being- And you're really focusing on these things. And so I'm going to be the first person to say, I live with David and his behaviors.
And some of the things are challenging as a parent to work with. But you also have to think about, he's got to live with it too. Like he's living with this, this is his life.
And then to have a teacher who just did not understand, did not understand, no matter what I tried to explain. And it was very difficult. This navigating this and advocating was very difficult.
It's a colleague of mine in the same district. Even though we're not at the same school, she's still a teacher in the district. And so navigating that was extremely challenging.
And we were really trying to take the guidance of David's counselor. Also in this process, there was an aid that was in the classroom that made a younger, I think she must've been in her twenties, like pretty close out of school and just did not know how to interact or how to help and just made things even worse for David. And to the point where, like I said, we were called and had to take him to the ER because he was self-harming himself in class, which traumatized him still to this day, like it's still to this day.
Well, as you said, things that happen are going to bother him. Right. And I mean, one of the things about autism is they hyper-focus.
And so he hyper-focuses on that. And like the ER is now a bad thing. Anytime he has to go, it's like he freaks out and it's traumatizing and it stays with it.
It's like PTSD, right? Like it stays with him. And for a long time, trying to get him to school was a nightmare. I don't know.
Like I'm looking back on it. He could not, he wasn't sleeping. It got to the point where he wasn't sleeping.
I had to sleep and he had to be in the room with me. He had to have me, like he had to be physically touching me in order for him to get any kind of sleep. And in all of this, I have a younger son that I'm trying to be there for as well.
David was suicidal. It did some really scary things in front of Cameron that affected Cameron. I mean, it just affected the whole family.
Of course. And none of us were getting hardly any sleep. So it was his sixth and seventh grade year and public school was- Horrifying.
Yeah. It was really- Sounds like the worst two years. It was really, really bad.
And there were some amazing people that he did connect with at elementary school, but this one teacher and this aide, just the OCD, the hyperfixation, he could not move past it. We couldn't, no matter what we did. We moved him out of the classroom.
We changed his schedule around. We did so many, his, the school psychologist who was incredible there that he loves and still loves to this day. We're still in contact with her, tried helping him so much and did everything that they could for him.
But it just, it was just too much. Well, yeah. And I would think too, I'm just guessing, but even just knowing that he's on his way to that campus would just do it, right? The mornings were horrid.
Yeah. And seeing the campus would trigger- Well, okay. So he doesn't go to that school anymore, but every time we, well, first of all, he couldn't go back.
We, he couldn't even look at the school, but there's, he still has friends that go there and he wanted to go back to their concerts and listen to their band concerts, but he couldn't get himself to go because he could not physically see the school. And then it got to the point where we could drive by the school, but he would flip the school off. We drove by.
Say whatever works. Right, exactly. Like get out that, you know, get out that anger.
And then, and then it got to, then it was, he started coming back to the elementary school and like visiting the elementary school. And he went to one of Cameron's concerts and the band teacher at the elementary school is also the band teacher at the middle school. And she said, for anyone who wants to come see the middle school play, this is when the concert is.
And David came to me and said, I think I'm ready. I want to go see my friends. I think I'm ready to go try to go back on campus.
And we did. We went back and he was able to do it. And he, it was hard.
I could see the anxiety, but the response he got, like everyone was so excited to see him. It like, it was a positive experience for him. He received a positive reaction to be on campus.
Yeah. Everyone was so happy. All his friends were so happy to see him and it made him feel really good.
And they were appreciative. They're like, thank you for coming to support us. Like, it was really a neat.
That's really great. You know, it was just genuine. These seventh grade boys ran up hugging David.
It was really a neat experience for him. And he felt good about being able to overcome that too. Like now there's a positive attached to it.
He still struggles. He still talks about those were the worst two years of his life, but you know, I'm like, but you're overcoming it and we're moving past it. And it's hard because like I said, the OCD he fixates and the autism he fixates on, but sure.
Anyway, in those two years, we were able to then get back his IEP. So for seventh grade, he was, we were able to get him into the resource program. But by that point, like I said, it was just too much for him.
He was traumatized too much. And we were looking at like, I was talking to my husband saying, I don't think we can continue at the school. I think we're gonna have to look for other options.
And I didn't know what that looked like at that point, but I said, I feel like we're gonna need to, I don't think he can stay at the school. And so in our district, there's something called the Counseling Enriched Program. And it's supposed to be connection over compliance, what I talk about a lot.
And they advertise it as we meet the kids where their needs are met. And, you know, and then it's, the focus is on the mental health and not on the academics. That's we wanna get kids to feel safe.
And then the academics come. I mean, that's how it was all presented to us, sounding wonderful. So we decided to make that change and we presented it to David and he was nervous, but he was on board to try it.
He was very hesitant. And so it was a different school in the district. So we had to coordinate, you know, driving and all that kind of stuff.
But because of his IP, we were able to do this. Ended up being another disaster. It was focused mainly on compliance and you didn't take your hood off in class.
You didn't get these points. And I'm like, what is that? How is that meeting David as his, where he's supposed to be? You know, like- Yeah, that makes zero sense. Why, the whole thing about like, I mean, all these rules, because it's a rule.
Well, what's the purpose of that rule? What is the purpose of having a kid take their hood off in class? Like, I always talk about that. Like when I make, when we set expectations in our classroom, we do it as a class. Because it's like me just arbitrarily assigning a rule when the kids don't understand why it's in place.
That's what I'm saying. They need to have some say in it. To understand it and to then to comply and be a part of it, you know, they have to have say in it.
And so David wasn't understanding why he couldn't wear a hood in class. And to be honest, like I- You're like, I don't know. Exactly, I have to teach it myself.
I'm like, I really don't understand this at all. Well, and I'm sure, because his IEP, I'm sure also was very talking about like how- For a program that's supposed to- And how he would react to a demand, right? Thank you, thank you. And I'm like, I'm trying to demand, right? Exactly, a demand that makes no sense.
Zero sense, exactly, yeah. What is that having to do? So I, so the other thing was, he really started to rely heavily on his cell phone to be in contact with me. And so whenever he was having panic attacks, it was constant, I was getting a barrage of text messages, phone messages, when I'm trying all day long, when I'm trying to teach.
And so it was very stressful on that level as well. And he came to rely, like that was his reliance. And so he was on his phone a lot to like escape what he was trying to face, you know? And his safety.
It was his safety net, it was his safety. It was like, you know, like a pacifier for a baby, you know? So one of the things when he went to the new school for the Counseling at Rich program was that they wanted to start weaning him off the iPhone, which I was definitely for, you know? I didn't want that to be his safety net, right? I wanted him to have other strategies, other tools to help him through. But because of circumstances beyond our control, that's where he was.
Like his cell phone was his safety net. So you can't just rip it from him, which is what they tried to do. You cannot just do that.
Like cold turkey. Right, you can't, right? So they tried to do that. Obviously that did not work.
And so I then had to advocate, like his case managers through Kaiser would come on these meetings. We'd have these IEP meetings with the teachers that are supposed to be- Understanding. Understanding of this.
And qualified to teach students with his specific challenges and, you know. We're basically telling, I mean, I was told that the reason he cannot sleep is because he has sleep apnea. And that we just need to sleep train him.
That, and now these are my colleagues telling me this as a teacher in the district about my own son. It was really demoralizing, I have to say, because they weren't believing what our experience was at home. Me and my husband were saying, he's not sleeping.
Well, that doesn't make sense. He wouldn't be able to stay awake all day long. Well, that's why he's on this one.
And he is falling asleep, by the way, a lot of times, like in class. He would tell me when he comes home. Also, we also know that no sleep equals mental health issues.
Like we all know that. And you can't just train a kid. It's not sleep training like a baby.
That's what he was telling me to do. Like, just let him deal with it throughout the night. I'm like, well, he's not in a crib and he can get out of his bed and he's getting out of his bed to get me.
And so in order for me to get any kind of sleep, I need to be there with him because I wasn't, I had a function. Well, you could sleep too. Everybody does, yeah.
They weren't understanding. And I had to get, and it was really a struggle for me because as a teacher myself, they weren't believing what we were experiencing. And so I can really understand on parents' levels when you are faced with that, how that is hard.
And so I really, I had to navigate that situation very carefully as a parent and a teacher in the district because, and I would write and rewrite emails because I didn't want to undermine their- Come across a certain way. Right, thinking I know more than them or whatever. But I would bring in his case manager from Kaiser and we would come up with these plans, but then they would not follow through on it.
And so one of the plans was like, I mean, they were literally fixated on taking his phone away. If you stop fixating on that, I promise you, if you engage him, he's not gonna be on the phone. If you feel safe and connected and you connect with him.
Yeah, it's about doing other things while he has his phone in his hand. Thank you. Yeah, I'll tell you the next story when we get to his new school.
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and let's, sorry, did you wanna- No, but yeah, no, but like- So getting him, like, for instance, one of the plans was for some reason, they thought it was important that David had to check in with them when he first came to class. Meaning there's this whole program based on where you, you know, some kids that are autistic have a hard time identifying their emotions.
So, and verbalizing their emotions. And so they've attached colors to emotions. So like green means you're happy, red means you're angry, blue means you're sad.
Like, so those kinds of things. And it works for some kids, but it didn't work for David. And he was, he didn't, you could tell he wasn't happy when he got to class.
His hood was on, he was, like, he becomes nonverbal when he's agitated, when his nervous system, he cannot speak. Like, he literally tells this to me after, like, when he is regulated again. He'll explain, he's like, I tried to talk and he's like, he physically can't talk.
It's like a grunt, all he can do is make a sound. And so they know this, right? Like, you can see he's not happy. Why does he have to tell you he's not happy? Why does he have to tell you he's dysregulated? You can observe and see it for himself.
Now you're just placing more of a demand on him that he knows he can't meet. He can't meet that expectation because he's physically and not, his nervous system is not capable at that moment. Yeah, and like you said, another demand.
It's another demand. Another rule. So, right.
So what the counselor, what we talked about was, so, okay, let's set that as an expectation. If he's able to meet it, he earns it. If he's not able to meet it, fine, just let us know and we'll have something at home.
He just hasn't, we're not taking anything away. He just doesn't earn extra gaming time or earn extra something, right? But you're not taking something from him. That was the plan.
The first day to implement the plan, he goes in, he's not able to tell them where he is on the chart of the color of his emotion. They blocked him from going into the classroom. They would not let him go into the classroom.
Which, what do you think, it escalates him more. So then he gets even more angry and more upset. So then he goes and he starts throwing rocks at a tree.
Which, okay, probably is not, okay, it's not the best, but he's not hurting anyone. He's not hurting himself. He's not hurting someone else.
He's trying to get his frustrations and anger out in a way that he knows how. So if that were me, I would just watch and keep my distance, but just observe and make sure he's being safe. I would not intervene, because when you intervene with a kid that's already activated, it just escalates them more.
And I know this, not being a special ed teacher. So you would think that these teachers know this, right? These are the wrong teachers to be at this place. Right, it just, I don't know.
So anyway, it ends, it escalates. Let me guess, they actually intervened, right? They intervened, and he ends up hitting the teacher. Which now goes, because he was completely out of control, and then it goes to him, it's his fault and his blame.
And then when he comes home, and we have to deal with the shame and the aftermath, he could not believe that he hit a teacher. He was so ashamed of himself. But they don't see that, because all they see is him being defiant.
They think he's defiant, they think he's not following the rules. All of those things that I've talked about earlier, and when we were talking, you know? And when that happened, he's like, mom, I can't go back there. And I'm like, you don't have to.
We're gonna figure something else out. This is just not the place for you. This is not it.
Also, once again, going back to the initial reason why he was even throwing the rocks at the tree in the first place. Why didn't you let the kid into this classroom? Just let him in it. All they needed to do was tell us that he didn't do the expectation, and then we could handle it at home, when he's in a safe place that he's comfortable in.
And he could talk about it. We were just trying to get him to school. Even get to school, yeah.
Just to get there, and just be safe there, right? Just be, that was our only goal, and they just made it even more hard for him. And so then he just starts, he escalates it. He starts throwing things in the classroom.
So then it gets to the point where now, but I really feel like it didn't have to get to that point. It did not have to get there, right? And so, yeah, so then you tell him you don't have to. Yes, and this was like, okay, so in the mean, he was there for a few months, and struggling, and we're trying to figure, and we're working, and things, and I see the writing on the wall.
My husband and I are like, I don't think this is gonna work. This is not the place. They just don't, they're not understanding.
They don't believe us. They're not listening to us. They think that he's not sleeping because he has apnea, not because he has severe anxiety.
Like, you know, all of these things, right? And I was like, I don't know what we're gonna do, but I gotta start looking. And so I happened to be on social media in a group because I was researching the PDA profile of autism a lot. And so I'm in a mom support group because, I mean, you look at all these families that experience the same thing that I'm experiencing with my own kid.
It cannot just be David. Like, this is a real thing that thousands of families and kids are affected by. And one of the, a mom in the group said, has anyone tried the Sudbury method of education? I was like, I've never even heard of it.
You know, I had never heard of it. She's like, my kid started this school. It's a Sudbury method.
It's been transformational. And she was in like some other, I think she was in Connecticut or something. Like, I wonder if there's something like that around here.
I just happened to, literally one day, I go online, lo and behold, there's one in Concord, 20 minutes from my house. And I was like, are you kidding me? Like, I cannot believe this. And I start looking at what it entails.
And it's a democratic school. The kids, the families, the teachers run the school together. There's no hierarchy.
You're, the kid has the same power as a teacher, a staff member for decisions about the school. You participate in meetings. You choose to, like, you choose to come to- Yeah, whether you want to or not.
No, you choose. If you don't come to the meeting, then you have to be okay with whatever is decided without your input, right? But that's your choice. So if you don't vote- If you don't vote- You can't get mad about what happens.
Exactly. Exactly. They choose what they learn.
There's not, it's a private school. They choose how they want to learn it. They choose the topics they want to learn.
They choose when they want to learn how to read. They choose what, it's very liberal. It's very progressive.
It's very non-traditional. And it's not what a public school system is at all. Yeah.
The kids decide, there's no set schedule. They bring their food, they eat when they want, they have a snack when they want, when their body tells them. That was another thing that we had issues with.
Was eating. Was eating at school, because with David's medication, it suppressed his appetite. So then he wasn't hungry at the scheduled lunchtime at school, but then when the meds were off, he's now hungry at the end of the day, and you can't eat anymore.
And he has to wait. Well, which triggers your nervous system anyways, you know, the hangry- So many issues, yeah. Exactly, right? And his body's so much more sensitive to those things.
So I'm looking at this going, oh my gosh. I mean, you know, and there's a scariness to trusting that if there's not a set curriculum, is your kid still gonna learn? And I'm here to tell you that he is. I mean, so we tried it out.
I said, you know, I have nothing to lose at this point. We've tried all our options in public school, and we've gone to the counseling, and we've done resource, we've done everything, and it's not a fit for him. So I wasn't, and I kept, I told him, like, because he kept saying, like, what if there's nothing for me? I'm like, nope, that's not an option.
We're not, we're gonna find a place that is for you. Yeah, and there's gotta be out there. There's gotta be something out there.
I said, we're not giving up on this, David, like, you know, because he was getting discouraged. Of course. And then something's wrong with him.
There's gotta be something wrong with him, right? Like in his head, right? And I was adamant, and I still am to this day about anything, like whenever he faces mental health issues. No, there's a solution. We just haven't found it yet, but we're not gonna stop until we find it.
Yeah. So we, this was the last week of school that this whole incident happened, this last incident happened. And I said, David, there's one week of school left.
You don't have to go, but let me tell you, I just randomly found this school that's 20 minutes away. Would you be willing to look at the website and check it out? He's like, yeah, I'll look at the website. So he looks at the website, and he's like, mom, I gotta go, I gotta go see, I gotta go there.
Like, just by looking at the website, hearing that he has the choice, he can make decisions, his voice matters, was the spark that he needed. I said, okay, let's go, let's have a meeting. We go there, and he's clearly still struggling.
Like, he's honest, we're in the meeting, but we're all, you know, so the whole thing about the school is they do not accept anyone unless the kid says, it's the kid's choice. The kid gives, it's all about giving permission to be a part of this community, this learning community. And then if the child is saying, yes, this is a community I wanna be a part of, I wanna partake in it, then they offer it to the parents.
So it goes through the kid. And so from the very beginning. Very beginning, our initial meeting.
The kid knows that. The kid knows, the kid's part of the meeting. So we go there, and when I called them, I was like, should we have David come to this meeting? He's like, absolutely, we can't do anything without David.
This is David's education, this is his education, he has a say in it. Oh, thank goodness, right? Like, this is what, these are people I can. Yeah, you're like, okay, I can speak, I can talk to you.
They knew about PDA, they know about autism. The majority of the kids at the school are neurodivergent. The staff members are neurodivergent, transgender, different races, whatever, polyamorous families, like, you name it, they're there.
And so accepting of all, and you can feel it the minute you walked into that school. It's a converted home, it's very homey, it's, you know, but, and it's small. What's the grade level, it starts? They don't even have grades, because it's not curriculum.
So it's ages five to 19. So it starts at five, okay, yeah, then to 19. To 19, you can graduate, you can choose to graduate sooner.
The way you graduate is you're basically doing a thesis, and you do your own research on how you're going to be a productive citizen, what your next steps are going to be in helping the community, and how are you going to contribute to the community, what you need to do to get to there, and you present it as, it's like in college, you present it as a thesis, and it's voted on by the school whether you've met the terms for graduation. Oh, interesting, now what is it called again? The school's called Diablo Valley School, and the method is Sudbury, it's a Sudbury. Sudbury? Uh-huh, S-U-D-B-U-R-Y.
Okay, so, just for anyone who's listening, who's interested, yes. It's transformational, it's been transformational for David. Yeah, sounds, I mean, sounds perfect for him.
Right, and so, I mean, kids that, you know, my mom went to go pick up David one day, and this little girl, she saw when she walked in, and the little girl had a blanket wrapped around her. David can bring his guitar if you need. They have a music room, they have a quiet room, they have technology room, they have an arts and crafts room, you know, but the kids, there's no set schedule, and they go into these different rooms, there's a library, there's, yeah, everything.
Well, they have a kitchen. What's necessary and needed. What's necessary, and if there's certain things, like, you know, they call them certifications, so like, he wanted to use the piano and the drums.
In order to do that, he had to be certified to show that he knew how to use the instruments correctly and take care of them correctly, and he couldn't use them until he got certified. So same in the kitchen, like, you can't use the microwave, you can't use the stove, you can't use the knives until you are certified, and so, but it comes from them. So when they're wanting to, like, if I want to be certified, and I wanna use the microwave for my lunch and warm it up, I'm gonna make sure I'm, but it's initiated, it's- Well, and they know that that's part of the process.
It's not a demand. I mean, it's a rule, but in a way that they choose. They choose when to do it.
They get to choose when to do it. And so at this meeting, this initial meeting, David's on his phone, he's not making eye contact with anyone, he's not talking. And so I've really learned the ways to communicate when David's like that, like, David, would you like me to be your voice today? Would you like me to answer for you? And he would shake his head or shake his head, yes or no.
And he wasn't talking. So I was like, David, would you like me to speak for you today? So they had students, current students in that meeting, they had staff members in that meeting. And one of the staff members was doodling on her iPad and said to us, I'm not being rude, I just wanna let you know I'm autistic and I need just to doodle.
I'm still listening, I'm still paying attention. As an adult is able to communicate that. Well, when she said that, David did that.
Like in little slight ways that I can tell, like he looked at me and just kind of gave me like a smirk, like, oh, maybe they do understand me, right? Because at this point he's thinking no one understands him. Of course. With all the experience he's had in middle school, no one gets him, or there's something wrong with him.
Also, it's when you see someone who is, oh, they're like me, it changes everything. It's okay, and they're an adult. And look, they have a job and they, yeah, right? So as we're in this like meeting and having a discussion and they're talking about how it all works, the phone starts to come down a little more and David's making more eye contact.
I can see his guard, his nervous system is regulating a little more. So the director says, would you like to take a tour, David? And David shakes his head immediately, yes. So we start going through the different rooms and they start showing the instrument room.
He was like, the technology room. And the kids built the computers that are at the school. The kids, it's all initiated by the kids.
And they go to the kids, they go to the staff member, they say, I wanna learn how to do this. The staff member goes, great, let's research. How are you gonna figure out how to do this? They bring in, they brought me in for a dissection because David brought it up at a meeting saying, I want to have my mom come for a dissection.
And they voted on it. He scheduled it. I came in, did a square dissection at school.
The kids loved it. And everyone, most of all the kids opted. There was only, I think two of the younger kids that were kind of squeamish about it.
But that was fine. They chose not to participate. They didn't have to.
They just didn't go. The staff members participated. Whoever wanted to participate could.
We did it. It was great. David's like, I'm gonna have you come back next year.
I'm like, great. Put it in the staff, put it in the school meeting and vote on it. That is so cool.
And that's how it works. So anyways, we're going through all these rooms and he's getting more and more excited, you know? So at the end of it, the director says, so David, we'd like to offer you a week trial to see. And since next week is our last week, would you like to come in next week without hesitation? His first word that whole day was yes.
And that was the first time he spoke in that meeting. He was shaking his head or not. You know, he was responding in that way, but he wasn't speaking.
So I was like, okay, you know? And in the meeting, we're talking like, I mentioned his diagnosis and immediately one of the staff members goes, oh, he's PDA. And I was like, oh my gosh, you know about like, in a public school system, no one that I had talked to knew anything about it, right? So they automatically have this edge. Knowledge and know how to work.
And that you know that they would listen to you. They don't, they're not gonna second guess us and not understand, you know? Yeah, and say, oh, he has apnea. Right, exactly.
I mean, they get personal days. So like one of the things said, you know, David, sometimes, you know, when I have a hard time, he has ADHD. I have a hard time getting myself up in the morning and sometimes I just need a day.
Like being around people, I just need it quiet. You can just have your parents call and say you need a personal day. You have a personal day.
And David looked at me and I was like, yeah. They need that in public school too, by the way. Thank you.
They need that. The school is- Especially middle school and high school. Exactly.
The school is open between eight and five. The attendance requirements are four hours and you can choose whatever time you go. It has to be a minimum of four.
You can stay longer. You can stay eight to five if that's what they choose. What you wanna do.
Right. So the first week, the first day, I drop him off and I took a day off because I wanted to help him transition. I knew transitions are hard.
He's on his phone. We go in and I was like, I said to the director, I'm like, do we need to do something about the phone? He's like, no, don't worry about it. I'm like, okay.
So David asked me to stick around for a few minutes and I asked the director if that was okay. He's like, yeah, that'll be fine. So David goes into the room that has a couch.
It's kind of like a, I don't, it's like an entertainment room. They have a TV in there. Like a lounge.
Like a lounge, yeah. He goes into that room and he sits down and he's on his phone and he's not interacting with any of the other kids or whatever. You know, he's just sitting on his phone.
A few minutes go by and I'm just kind of sitting there. Then the director sits down next to him. But first he goes, he goes, David, would it be okay if I sat next to you? David shook his head yes, so he sat down.
And then he's like, is it okay if I watch what you're doing? That looks like a really cool game that you're doing on your phone. And David shakes, and he's not talking, but he's doing the physical interaction. So he's watching him.
He's like, oh, like this reminds me, like he starts interacting, talking to him about the game. Yeah. I swear to God, Meredith, like within two minutes, the phone is now coming down and he's now locally, verbally, talking to the director about this game, okay? That's so cool.
I'm talking months and months and months of them trying to get the phone out of his hands at the counseling, at the other roots. It's down now within five minutes of him being in the school, okay, at the school. And having a conversation, because he's now engaging David in something he's interested in and can talk about, right? So, and he's not saying put the phone down, put the phone away.
He's connecting with him. This is what I mean about, it all comes back to connection. It comes back to it.
So yeah, so within five minutes, it's down. And then, and it was brilliant the way the director did this because then he goes, he's like, this reminds me of something, a game we have on our computers. Do you wanna go into our technology room? And I wanna show you this.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing because David stands up, he puts the phone in his pocket. He waves to me by, walks into the other room. And I'm like, I guess that means I can go.
Oh, that's amazing. That was within like, I'm talking about 15 minutes. We had been trying for months to get him to school, to get him into the school, to in public school, right? This counseling enriched program.
They've been trying to get his phone. And within 15 minutes, the phone's away. He's speaking verbally and he's now going off to try something that the director was gonna show him.
In a brand new place. In a brand new place when transitions are really difficult. Are really hard for him.
But you make my kid feel connected immediately and safe immediately. Look what can happen. And it's just proof.
And I take that with me with every student that I have. No matter if they're identified as neurotypical or not. It doesn't matter the label to me.
If I see that a kid is struggling, I'm gonna try to connect with them on their level. Where it's for them, it's not about me. It's about them and making them feel comfortable and safe to be able to come to me.
And their choices once again too because he put his phone away. Exactly. It was natural.
Naturally. That was the point of what the director was trying to do. But did it in a way where David had no idea.
It felt like it was David's control. The director knew what they were doing. But that's the point.
Exactly. That's the point of it, right? That is exactly. Oh my God.
I'm so excited for him and for you. And oh my God. So the kid.
This is amazing. In a place where he only has to go four hours a day, he chooses to go around six hours a day. And will call us and say like, it closes at five o'clock and he'll text us and be like, oh, one staff member told me that they're gonna be staying later.
They said I can stay with them later. So he'll stay till like 5.30. He goes to school on the weekends to participate in the open houses. He.
I love that. He goes on field trips with them to do protests at the city hall. And then they brought the vice mayor to the school and he sat with the vice mayor and is like, he's participating in the government and politics of the city.
Oh, that's so cool. I get to only see him working there one day. Oh yeah.
The director was a student there. Oh. The director was once a student there.
He went off to culinary school after he graduated there and he was in culinary and catering and had his own business for a while and then wanted to come back and give back. And you may as well not call it school. It's not.
It's a. They call it a learning community. Yeah, that's perfect. And David, I wish I should have brought this to show you, but some of his writing examples because they do Dungeons and Dragons.
They have a day of Dungeons and Dragons. And really, he's developing characters. He's writing stories.
He's creatively writing stories about his characters and plots. So instead of being in class and an English class and being told you have to write a story about this and this and this. Yeah, read this book and write an essay.
You should see this writing. I could not. First of all, just the penmanship in and of itself because he cares about it.
He's taking his time. He's bringing it home to work on. The kid, we couldn't get him to do homework to save our life.
Oh, don't even get me started on homework. Yeah. He's now choosing to bring this stuff home and work on it because he wants to develop his character because he wants his character to win in the game when they play.
Yeah. And the staff members are playing too. It's something he's interested in and he wants to do well.
And he's learning creative writing. He's going online and learning. Oh, and then he'll come to me and say like, hey mom, I forgot what an adjective is.
And I'm like, oh, let's look at it. So who cares that he doesn't remember what an adjective was in third grade. He now knows what it is because he's applying it in his own writing.
Yeah. And okay, maybe he's a 14 year old now, but now he's applying it and he really understands it. And he wanted to learn what an adjective was.
Yeah. Instead of being told what it is in third grade and being told you have to remember what it is. Well, and let's drive it into your brain when you don't care.
So it's not gonna go into your brain. Your brain's not gonna retain it. Yeah.
Yeah. Donovan's the same way about, I mean, like I said, dyscalculia and dysgraphia. Exactly.
When you have an English teacher who like gets really nitpicky about spelling and he's trying to write and his writing is terrible. He can't spell. I mean, and I'm just saying that it's true.
It's the truth. I'm going, well, it's because he literally from his brain to the paper, it doesn't connect. Exactly.
And so you're telling me that he has to write something because that's not gonna work for him. See, and at that point- But a computer works for him. Thank you.
At that point, now what you're doing is you're lowering his self-esteem because he knows he can't do it. And now, but my teacher's saying I have to do it. But I know I can't.
I know, yeah. And I know I'm not good at it, so now I'm embarrassed. Exactly.
And so that's where the shutdown comes from. And that's where David would then would refuse. I know he even said to me at one point, he's like, I didn't turn it in, mom, because I knew I wasn't able to do what she was asking me to do.
For him, seeing that low score was gonna do even worse to his self-esteem and damage. Yeah, no, I've seen the anxiety attacks happen because of homework and because of, yeah, yeah. And I wish certain teachers, especially when you get into the higher levels.
I mean, I feel like elementary school teachers understand it a little more, especially at our school, for some reason. I mean- And post-COVID. Yes.
I mean, our school has, we don't do homework in elementary school. There's so much data. Oh, that's so nice.
There's so much data to show that, unless a parent will say, we'll give them options. Here, you can do this if you want, but the only homework is reading, honestly. And because it's pointless in elementary school.
Yeah, well, and we had a meeting for high school with the IEP meeting, and I explained to the manager, I said, okay, the biggest issue we're having right now is actually English, because he's being forced to read a book when he does not read. He hates reading. And so I said, what about an audio book? Yeah.
Can he listen to a book? So this high school said, oh yeah, all the kids have audio book, and it's free. Thank goodness. And I'm going, well, why didn't the middle school do that? There's something about middle school.
The teacher said, no, you cannot have an audio book. Why? I don't understand. I said, I don't give a fuck.
I actually was like, well, here's the audio book. Because what's more important at that point? Yeah, and I said, how about we do your presentation together based on what you heard, but game changer. Game changer.
Exactly, not only that, but like, when you think about a kid with ADHD, the amount of focus it takes for them to track, and the brain power it takes for them to track, it's not worth it. So even if you can get them to the point, okay, follow along, follow while you're listening, so then you're still getting the information, but then you can practice the tracking. You've got to separate it out at some point.
Do you know what I mean? And then- And that's actually what he did, and it completely changed everything. It changes everything. And I don't understand why there are so many teachers that are so against this.
And I even had to, which I didn't mind, because it got him to do homework, because unfortunately, homework was such a huge deal. In middle school, for some reason, it is. In his points and stuff.
I'm like, oh my God. And luckily, once again, I was told too in high school, she's like, oh, you don't have to do the homework. It's all about, if it helps you do the tests and the papers, fine.
But that's not graded. And I'm going, oh my God, this is gonna be such a different. But middle school was just so hard.
And I would, he would tell me, I would be like his secretary, typing his papers, and he would pace back and forth, playing basketball in the living room, telling me what to say. And that's what we did with David too. So they were his words, but if he was forced to type them, we never would have gotten it done.
Exactly, exactly. And I'm sure if I told the teacher I did that. So the end result is the same, but the accommodation, how he got there is different.
Isn't that the point? Yes, yeah. Isn't that the point? Yeah. Right? Now he did have some, he did have support.
But my point of saying all of that is for anyone who is like, oh my God, I can't get my kid to do like homework, blah, blah, blah. You figure it out. Right.
You don't just force the situation. You figure it out with your kid, and who cares what the teacher thinks? I'm sorry. Right, exactly.
And so here's, I've done this several times where I've said, David, we're done. I'm cutting you off. I don't care what your teacher says right now.
At this point, your mental health is more important than this homework assignment. And I'm writing them a note. And if you get a zero, honestly, at this point, your mental health is more important than the zero on the paper.
And it just is horrible that parents are put in that position. As a teacher myself, I can be like, your grade in middle school means nothing to me, honestly. Like to me, education is not about a grade.
And it shouldn't be. And it shouldn't be, yeah. And that is the problem with our system right now.
That's not what it's about. We are making kids hate learning. Oh, yeah.
Hate going to school. Hate going to school. Yeah, totally.
And it's really hard, like I said, as being a teacher in the system and having a kid who doesn't fit the system, me trying to navigate. And my whole thing is, what I try to do in my classroom is make my classroom a place where everyone, no matter what diagnosis you have or what diagnosis you don't have or what family situation you have or what race or gender you are, it doesn't matter. My job is to meet you where you are when you walk into my classroom.
Yeah, yeah. That's my job. And that's what every teacher's job should be.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please come back for part two of my conversation with Gina.
