Welcome to the Average 90s Gal Podcast. Join me as I share my own journeys through life, how I got and continue to get through them, as well as real stories from real people in this crazy world. Let's get through it together.
Hello, Luke, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here. Hello.
So first of all, to anyone listening, we are related. Luke is my first cousin, once removed. I don't know why I get so mixed up with that, but so you are my cousin.
And well, every time I start a podcast, I always, this episode, I always ask, what generation are you? What was your family background? Where did you grow up? Any kind of info you wanna give me on how you grew up and background. Generation Z, born in 2000. Grew up in Granite Bay, California.
So you can say pretty privileged, probably. Yeah, kind of the tail end of Gen Z. I feel like I was on the cusp of a lot of old world and new world. And I was there for the transition for a lot of things, I would say.
When I was growing up, I had a flip phone and now everybody has a smartphone. Nobody will ever do that again. Same thing with cursive writing and tapes and DVDs.
All those things were there when I was a child and now they're never gonna be seen again, pretty much. Same with those red boxes at the grocery store where you rent your movies and stuff. Oh, that's right.
I forgot about those and Blockbuster. Yeah, yeah, but that was around when you were a kid, right? Yeah. Cool, thank you so much.
And you grew up, your parents are still married. I clearly know your parents. And you have an older brother, two years older, is that right? No, he's three and like a half.
Three and a half years older, okay. Okay, great. First, I would love to go into the type of work that you do now.
I find it really fascinating, all the things that you do. Can you tell me just what kind of work you're doing? I don't know, I'm all over the place right now. So I graduated college in 2022.
I went to Western Governors University. It's an online university from 2020 to 2022. So I got my Bachelor's of Science in Computer Software Engineering in two years.
And I have pretty much exclusively done freelance and independent stuff. So throughout college, I worked on independent game development with one of my childhood friends and was hoping to monetize that, but it ended up falling through for plenty of reasons. But I got into the freelance AI training space pretty early on in the days of chat GPT, like 3.5 turbo when it was like really crazy, when it exploded all of a sudden.
And I pretty much stuck with it for a long time because it paid a lot. And that's kind of like come back to bite me because a lot of employers nowadays don't really consider that like, they don't consider contract work experience for some reason, which is really unfortunate. So it makes me really jaded with the state of the job market for that and many other reasons in the tech sector, it's just like so bad.
But yeah, I've recently stopped doing that because the company I worked for was a subsidiary of scale AI. And they were recently bought 50% by Meta and a bunch of big companies like Google just like pulled their projects with them. Really? So it's just like instantly no work and it's super unstable.
So what I did and what I don't do anymore is train LLMs how to program basically. So training AIs to take my job essentially if they ever do, which I don't think they can. Which everyone thinks, not everyone, but you keep hearing that, right? About AI taking my job.
Yeah, I think it has a capability to take a lot of people's jobs. But if it can take a programmer's job, someone who created what it is, then at that point it's just self-replicating and self-improving. And the entire economy from which we are based on is just absolutely gone at that point because America is based on us selling our labor.
And that's not gonna be an option if 100% of white collar jobs disappear immediately. Yeah, yeah. So now I'm like really trying to not just get a normalized job.
I don't know how else to explain it. Yeah. I'm so jaded and done with IT.
And I feel almost betrayed by Gen X and the lie we were sold. As 1950s to early 2000s was unprecedented economic certainty, economic prosperity. And what they grew up with and what the schools are based on is you go to college, you get a job and you can pay for your house and your four children and everything and you can just cruise your way through life.
And that's just not the case at all. I have like five certifications, a bunch of software development experience that's not considered experience. And I get sorted out by an ATS system.
And when I do get an interview, I'm competing against some ex Google employee who was just laid off because of whatever reason. Yeah, it's not great. So I started developing apps and stuff independently.
And I'm trying to work on YouTube now because if other people can do it, why can't I? Yeah. Pretty much eat or eat in the world right now. Definitely.
Okay, tell me about the apps. I worked on two apps. It was literally just jump tacky and motor route.
And I couldn't come up with another idea that I knew would be profitable because it's a massive time sink. And I was pretty certain that motor route would do well, but it takes a lot of money to advertise that type of thing. And when I did run an ad campaign for it, it did quite well, especially in like Europe and stuff where there's a lot of motorcycles and Saudi Arabia and India actually.
Oh, interesting. I got like good reviews. It's got like five stars, like 3000 users or whatever.
But if I kept running the ad campaign, I would have just kept losing money, but it would have been a gamble to assume there would have been a point where I wouldn't be making more than the ad campaign costs. And then it would have just been like feeding itself, which would have been nice, but I don't wanna gamble that. Yeah, and what is it called again? Just for anyone listening.
Motor route? Motorcycle routing and navigation. Cool, and yeah, can you tell everyone what it does? So me and my late uncle were talking about how terrible all those apps were for specifically routing and navigation. And I pretty much decided that I can just make it better, especially the navigation portion of it, which is paywalled in every single app, unnecessarily because all of that is handled on your phone.
Usually they monetize things that are cloud-based and that's gonna cost them money, making API calls to Google, for example. But the navigation portion of it is completely offline and uses like your phone's GPS system and all that. So it's completely free of charge in that way, which I was really proud of.
What I thought was missing from all those apps where you had to pay like a subscription just to have navigation for the route created. Because what's the point of making a route if you can't just use your phone's GPS? I don't understand that. Yeah, I agree.
Well, that's cool. I think that's great. So it finds a route for a motorcycle specifically, correct? The best route.
The best route you can- For you, yeah. You can pick undefined amount of vias they call them, like little stops, which will define the shaping of the route. And you can pick different algorithms.
So fast, fast and curvy, curvy, extra curvy, and it'll automatically find the route for you. And you can like avoid tolls, avoid highways, avoid main roads, avoid off-road. Very cool.
Love it. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah.
Well, anyone listening who's interested, check it out. Anyone who rides a motorcycle or knows someone who rides a motorcycle, I think that'd be great. So tell me about YouTube.
You said you're on YouTube now. What kind of, you have a channel? Yeah, it's just my name. And it's like technology, entertainment and educational information, I would say.
Okay. I think I have a talent for it. I have like a couple videos that have 40,000 views, 10,000 views, whatever.
And then I'm trying to figure out what does well and what doesn't. And it seems my like just straight teaching does the best. So I think I'm gonna have to stick with stuff like that.
That's great. And so Luke Elrod, if someone searched. The display name is just Luke, but it's just at Luke Elrod, one word.
Okay. And actually we'll link to everything we talk about in the show notes as well. If anyone's interested.
You can just link my website, because that has everything. Oh, we'll do that too. Definitely.
Because this is something I'm just curious about. And because I've heard about it a little bit as well is the whole workforce issue that today in general for everyone really, but for Gen Zs, everyone talks a lot about how difficult it has been for your generation, your age group. And of course, COVID happened.
And it just seems as if since the beginning, since your generation, especially the older part of the generation, such as yourself, graduating from high school and going into college in the workforce, it feels as if it's never been easy. Is that true? To say? I would say it was easy during the height of the pandemic, actually, especially specifically for my profession. Oh, true.
There was a mass overhiring during the pandemic because of the whole, everybody is at home. Everybody's interacting with just their screens. So let's mass overhire all these people.
And then right after the pandemic, let's lay off thousands of Google and Microsoft employees that now have this on their resume and who doesn't want to see Fang on their resume, right? And it's just bad for everyone right now. It's really bad. Yeah.
My girlfriend's mom, who's in her 60s, had to get a job. She couldn't find a job, which is absolutely insane. So her 60-year-old mom is working at Hobby Lobby and gets off at like 10.30. And she finally understands how hard it was to even get a job because a lot of boomers in, what is it, greatest generation? Yeah.
They just say, oh, these kids nowadays, they just don't want to work. So that's the work part of coming out of school. Can you tell me, because it's something we've been speaking about lately with different guests on the show, and can you just tell me what school was like for you and what either worked or didn't work? Because you went to online college.
Was it senior year of high school that you did online? Yeah, like three-fourths of my senior year. I really couldn't handle it anymore. But school, I think it's absolutely terrible nowadays.
It's just antiquated and doesn't prepare you for anything. Yeah, can you elaborate on that a little bit? Like what was it, how did it not work for you? Or what did you just see that they should do instead? Also, have you ever had ideas of, if they just did it like this? I don't know. It's really hard to say what they need to do to fix it.
But I just feel like I just felt generally unprepared in that it's just very regimented and it's a one-size-fits-all, which is just not how humans work. Everybody needs to be taught a different way. Yeah.
And it caters to the lowest common denominator in the classroom. So if one kid learns at one pace, another learns at another and can't stand just sitting there, listening to them talk about the same thing over and over again, then they start like freaking out because they're like ADHD and then it just doesn't work for them. And like, oh, just deal with it.
Yeah, and so is that why you went to online school then? No, I mean, I did hate it, but that's not what pushed me over the edge for that. In general, when I was very young and all throughout high school and all that, I just didn't care about school at all and it was fine. I just got Cs.
I never did homework. I never did anything. And it was just a general, I felt like I wasted a massive chunk of my life.
It was really my anxiety that probably pushed me over. I'm trying to remember how it formed when I was younger. The earliest I can remember of experiencing that at school was being transferred out of private school, second grade, and then going to Oak Hills in third grade.
And it's just like all the people you knew are just gone and you gotta make a whole new set of friends when you're that young and it's not really for everybody. I seem to have no problem making friends, but that's when I feel like I really started realizing that I was anxious about things that normal people aren't. Oh, that's interesting.
A third grader shouldn't be anxious about what everybody thinks of them and hyperanalyzing people's behaviors. So that's what was going on? Yeah, and I don't know. Also, part of what gave me anxiety later in my schooling was just waking up in the morning and dreading going to school knowing that the whole day was just gonna be just removed and that it wasn't my time at all.
I wasn't gonna learn anything. Yeah, just a waste of your day. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And it got so bad in high school that I started having to leave classroom to go throw up in trash cans my senior year. And that's when I was like, I can't do this anymore because it was consistent and they didn't give a shit at all.
Like I'd go up there and be like, I have to throw up wherever, like, okay, whatever. Yeah, that was it. They just didn't care.
So yeah, I had to convince my parents to let me go to online. I pretty much strong-armed it. It wasn't convincing.
It was like, I'm not going. You literally cannot force me. I'm not doing this anymore.
Yeah. You don't have a choice, actually. I'm just telling you.
Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
So high school's over. Thank goodness, right? Yeah. So you spoke about the anxiety and I know if it's okay with you that we talk about the, was it anxiety-inducing, it's the DPDR? That's a symptom of anxiety.
Okay, so can you go into that a little bit? Like what it is, what it feels like or felt like for you and then I would love it if you just talk about what helped you get through it, out of it, what helps you now, all the things. So even at the end of high school and beginning of college, I didn't experience any of that. After I graduated the online thing in high school, I was like, okay, I feel totally fine because I was able to blast through that or whatever and got on the Dean's List both semesters at the online thing.
And I was like, okay, I can go back to physical community college because I want to do the two years, two years thing. And within the first couple weeks, it was just, I actually started throwing up again. And I was like, what the hell? I can't do this.
I don't know, I think it's something to do with feeling out of control and having to sit there and do this hyper-regimented thing that I don't feel like I'm learning from. It just makes me feel like I'm wasting my life and then makes me totally spiral out of control. But the first time I experienced the dissociation stuff was December 25th, 2018, I think, or 2019.
What is it? Maybe I have this out of order. Yeah, no, so I did experience the dissociation stuff before I went to the community college and started throwing up or whatever. It was, yeah, Christmas Day, we were playing Pictionary and it was with me, my uncle, aunt, and parents.
It was very low-key. But it was a whole day after we were hosting Christmas or whatever, and my body just totally dumped all the stress all at once while we were playing. And I had a total panic attack.
I didn't recognize it at the time. I didn't understand what it was, especially because it was very heavy visual symptoms. Like what? Like what? Fragmented vision, very foveal vision, I would say.
So I don't know if you've been super high before. It's kind of like that where it's one picture, then it's one picture, then it's one picture when you're turning your head. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And part of that is because when you're panicking, think of evolutionarily, you're drastically, you're frantically looking for something to focus on. Something that is the threat. And when there's nothing around you that is an actual threat, you can't focus on anything.
And it's just like your vision doesn't know what to do. And I thought I was going insane or having a stroke or something. Yeah.
And that continued with that spiraling because I didn't understand what it was for months, if not years, and it was pretty miserable to the point where I was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital for like suicidality. It was like a 5150 that I got put on because I went to the ER. I was like, what is wrong with me? Why is nobody telling me what's wrong with me? And they were like, oh, we're just gonna throw you in the psychiatric hospital because we think you're suicidal even though I never explicitly said that.
So I was literally forced in there. Oh. And it was 2019? So you were 19 or was it 2018? I think it's really blurry.
Okay, yeah, but around there. Yeah. Okay.
2018, 19, 2020. Okay, so you were, so 18, 19, 20 is when Yeah. all this was happening.
Okay. And I'm 24 now, by the way, so. Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you.
Yeah, I'm sorry about what I was talking about. Yeah, sorry. Oh, so they put you in the psychiatric facility.
Yeah. And I think, yeah, I didn't learn anything from that, actually. The most I learned from actual medical professionals was my original primary care provider doctor and the ER doctor.
I have maintained this opinion forever at this point that those are the only people that actually care, are actual doctors. I hate psychiatrists with a burning passion. Really? Yes.
And I think some psychologists and therapists are good people, but they're few and far between. Psychiatrists are pill pushers, and at least all the ones I've ever talked to, even the ones that did rotations in the psychiatric hospital. I remember, actually, in the psych ward, I was explaining what was happening to an intern, a psychiatric intern, or maybe it was a psychology intern, I don't know.
And they literally looked at me and said, I'm sorry, I don't know what to do for you, and left. I was like, wow, that's great. You're like, great, I'm in here and no one can help me.
Yeah, it's literally just a prison. That's all it is, and they treated other people like garbage, it was crazy. I know.
The first night I was there, somebody, my roommate, had to be dragged out, screaming and crying by police officers because he didn't wanna go back to his abusive house and they were forcing him back, so. Yeah, it was awesome. That's great to watch.
Yeah, and then my next roommate was a schizophrenic who thought he was in some Russian crime syndicate. He was actually pretty chill. It was really interesting listening to his stories, but I'm sure they weren't real, but it was useful.
But fascinating, just the same, right? Yeah, the brain can conjure those things. That is one of my worst nightmares, honestly. Schizophrenia? Yeah, because I think that's definitely stemmed from when I had the panic attack, I thought I was going insane.
Yeah. And I was really afraid of that happening, so yeah. Yeah, so these would happen, I guess, the term, like episodes? So you have episodes or was it a? It was a dissociative episode or panic attack.
And that's what it's called. Can you say what it's called again, dissociative? I have. Like what's the? Diagnosis of depersonalization, derealization, which is a symptom of anxiety.
Okay, depersonalization. Derealization. Derealization, okay.
And you feel, like what does it, because you said about the visual, the depersonalization part, do you just feel like you're out of body? What is the experience? It's a fear response and it's your brain protecting you. So after I had that first panic attack, if I had of recognized what it was, just almost ignored it and went back to playing Pictionary, it would have been completely fine and would have subsided. But the more you hyper-focus on it, the more you're gonna start panicking and have more of these episodes and it's gonna have a everlasting effect on you where that's where the depersonalization, derealization is, is the chronic dissociation and the detachment.
The best way I can explain it is like you're looking at your life from a third-person perspective and everything looks like a painting, almost void of depth or detail or meaning. Like you're controlling your body with a remote. It's so weird.
Yeah, that is so strange. It's not necessarily negative because it's your body, like your brain trying to protect you. Protecting you, right? It's a traumatic experience because if you're being mauled by a bear, you don't wanna be in your body.
No, no. You don't wanna be watching it. Yeah, it's a protective state, yeah.
So you're out of the, and that clearly didn't do anything for you, right? They just had no idea what was going on but kept you there and then just decided. But that was it. So it was never diagnosed in that place, right? How was it then diagnosed eventually? My primary care provider at that time was the one who identified it, not even the psychologist or psychiatrist I was seeing.
He was like, yeah, you definitely have, you're just really anxious pretty much. And he pinned it as depersonalization, derealization. Oh, interesting, okay.
Yeah, he put me on SSRIs and I've been on and off those for the past few years. And they do help a little bit, but it's not a cure. It's just like a Band-Aid for when things get too stressful or whatever.
But what really helped me was probably my father, philosophical books and meditation. And finally, understanding what it is and it's not there to hurt you and it's not going to get worse. That's a big portion of it is the fear that it's not just anxiety and that it's a traumatic brain injury and you're dying or something.
Yeah, and that stopping it before it gets worse is the best thing, right? Like you said, if you knew during the Pictionary that you knew what was happening and you could. That's not something you wanna think of though. You don't wanna think, oh, I need to stop this before it gets worse, because that's the antithesis with it.
Oh, so you just say, this is what it is? Yeah, you need to be okay with it and that's the only way it'll go away. That's the paradox of it. If you're not okay with being in a dissociated state.
It'll spiral? It's only gonna get worse and only gonna stay. Okay. It's gonna get worse until a point and then stay there.
But you have to be at absolute peace with whatever state of mind you're in and treat the underlying causes of your anxiety that started it all. Not the symptoms of dissociation and the anxiety itself. And you exercise as well too, right? Does that help? Yeah, I'd say, yeah.
I feel very wrong if I don't exercise at least every other day. Yeah, is that weights mainly or do you also do cardio? Yeah, and I've been lifting weights all throughout. Since I was like 16, I've been lifting consistently.
Even when I was at my worst, I was still doing that because it was like almost the only reprieve I got. It was funny, I remember I was like not eating when I went to the psych ward and it was like basically a cut and I was just like bulking a bunch of muscle. And then when I went to the psych ward, I was like super cut and people were like commenting on it in the psych ward and it was kind of funny.
Yeah. Like, oh, you look really strong or whatever. It's like, probably don't see that a lot in the psych ward.
That's true. It was interesting. Yeah.
I definitely think exercise is one of the best things. Being connected with your body because obviously you're dissociated from it. So anything that's gonna connect you with it and get you out of your head is better.
Definitely, yeah. I think too many people don't connect the two. The brain is part of your body.
Yeah. You know? Especially your gut. Yeah.
It's directly connected to your brain. Exactly. So the importance of being connected to your body and exercise is definitely one of the best ways.
And meditation too. I think you mentioned meditation. I think it's, anyone who does it, I do it as well, knows how amazing it is and what it does for you.
And I just wish everyone would understand that. And then it's not some, exactly. And it's not something where you have to sit in complete silence with your hands on your knees.
It's not like that. People don't realize it can be so simple and so just centering yourself and grounding yourself. So that and exercise and then eating well.
I know you eat well too. It's really important as well, I would think too. And the gut, like you said, huge part.
Keep taking care of your gut. So how long in total did it take you, do you think? So from the time you left the psych ward to really understanding all the things you needed to do. You said your dad and meditating.
But how long did it take you to really figure that out, do you think? It was a long time. Yeah. I think it's a constant battle, honestly.
I don't know, best way I can explain it. The battle doesn't get easier, you just get stronger, I guess. And leaving the psych ward was probably the beginning of getting better.
Because I was like, I remember we went and got like pizza or whatever. And I was like, it could not get worse than that. And that kind of made me appreciate existing a little bit more, which kind of was the catalyst of getting out of my head a little bit and trying to enjoy things a little bit more.
And then I started reading How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, which is like this book on stoicism and Marcus Aurelius. And it was the whole idea of stoicism really resonated with me, not the stereotypical cold and feeling stoicism, but the, if you know what I mean, like the Marcus Aurelius stoicism, like not feeling things, but not reacting to them. That's kind of negatively on me, yeah.
Yeah, that is a great book. And it's amazing how relevant things, his quotes and things that he has said is today. I love it.
It's great. I love that you brought that up because I think everyone should read that or at least read some of the things that he has said as well. Because yeah, it'll be relevant forever.
It will. Because it's human existence, right? It's all about being human. There's a bunch of quotes from that that I still remember to this day.
And something that I think is really important is to have a mantra or multiple mantras that you can repeat in your head. Like Seneca, one of the Roman senators or whatever, he's like, we suffer more in imagination than reality. Or simply saying, what would Marcus do? Or something like that.
There you go. Something you don't have to speak, but resonates with you. And just stays in your head.
I mean, when you need it, right? Yeah. Oh, that's great. All right, so final thing I always ask people at the end.
Well, for you, I'd love, what do you think is next for you? You were talking about being pretty jaded by what's happening in IT and all of that. Do you have any ideas of what you really wanna do next or what you wanna teach yourself or learn? I just want to be able to contribute my skills to the world in technology. I don't really care how that comes across, whether it's YouTube or a job in IT.
I want to give that to the world and I will do it one way or another. That's what I'll say. Yeah, that's great.
And then the final thing I always ask everybody is, because a big theme of the podcast is coming back to your most authentic real self in any way we can. So what is one thing you either want to start doing or stop doing to help bring you back to your most authentic self? I don't know. I can't think of anything right now other than stop worrying about money, even though it is a valid worry.
I don't know. I truly believe if you bring value to people, then money isn't an afterthought. So it's just about focusing on bringing value rather than how to make money or how to extort money out of people.
So it's a constant battle trying to do that. Because if you're just trying to extort money or get money as your end goal of everything, why wouldn't I just use my skills to just hack or something or do something really unethical? Yeah, no. And that would be authentic to who you are because otherwise you would be that other person who could hack or who would.
You can, but, or who would. Then that, yeah, that's great. That's perfect.
Well, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for sharing your story. And if there's anything else you wanna say? No.
Okay. Thanks for the refresher on the whole story. I guess I haven't told anybody about that in a while, so.
Yeah, well, thanks so much for sharing it. Appreciate it and for your openness. Yeah.
All right, great. Thanks so much.
