[00:00:00] Welcome to the average nineties GAL podcast. Join me as I share my own journeys through life, how I got and continue to get through them, as well as real stories from real people in this crazy world. Let's get through it together.
Hello and welcome, Meredith here. Of course, I am so happy to introduce part one of my episode with my brother Matt, where he dives into our childhood, the places we've lived, and everything that he has gone through from childhood into adulthood regarding his mental health and everything in between. And I hope you will come back for part two.
Where he will dive even further [00:01:00] into the struggles, but then how he came out of them and how he has gone through the journey and what has brought him to where he is now. If you are someone you know is struggling with mental health condition or suicidal thoughts as well as addiction, there are links in the show notes that I hope will be helpful.
So I hope you enjoy this part one with my brother Matt. Hey Matt. How's it going? Hello, sister. How are you? Good. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. This is cool. Of course, of course. You know the drill if you, I kind do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you could just tell me your generation, the year you graduated, high school upbringing, where you were born, all the good stuff.
Okay. Generation X. Yep. I'm like. Towards the older generation X. Mm-hmm. I [00:02:00] was born in 71. I'm 53 now. I'll be 54 in six weeks. Graduated high school in 1989. I was an eighties kid. Yeah. Junior high in high school. Born and raised in Santa Monica, California. We moved from California. You might have to help me with this.
1981 or two. And then we moved to to Austin, Texas. And we were only there for a year and a half. Something like two, two years, I'm not sure. Two years almost. Yeah. And none of us enjoyed it there. No, not 'cause Dad got a job out there. That's the reason we went out there in the first place. And it was your bunny died because it got eaten by ants.
The ants by those nasty like red ants in Texas. Oh yeah. I, I broke my nose that was playing football, like out in the street and while we were like playing, I, I caught the ball and turned around and there was a truck Right, right there. Yeah. [00:03:00] Literally ran Yes. Directly into the back of a truck. Yes. Right.
Yeah. And broke my nose. And that was on Christmas day. Yeah. Just, and then mom got Oh yeah. Like really bad and it ugh. Oh. And I had like horrible stomach problems that Oh yeah. No one could figure out. So I was constantly at the doctor getting blood tests. That's right. That's right. And they found out it's because I loved bologna sandwiches and it was the bologna, I forgot about that.
He's probably Oscar Meyer. Yeah. Hor horrible stuff. Yeah. Very like processed, horrible stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and how old were you? When, like when you broke your nose, for instance. How old? Because you, I think you, I was like 11, like fifth grade or something, right? Or No, we, when we moved, I was in the middle of sixth grade.
Sixth grade, okay. So that must have been about 11. Yeah. Or 12 even. Because I think we came back to California and that was the summer before I started. Seventh grade. Seventh grade, [00:04:00] yeah. Yeah. Junior high. I don't know what it is now, but it was seventh and eighth grade back then. I don't know what it is now.
It's more sixth, seventh, and eighth now. Okay. In most places. I dunno. Yeah. Everywhere. But, so I started seventh grade, we got here in summer, then I started and so that would've been 1984. Yeah, that sounds right, because I started high school in 86. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds good. Uh, Concord High and Concord, California.
I remember thinking when we were decided to move back to California, that we would go back to Santa Monica 'cause I loved it so much. Yeah. And then I heard, oh no, we're going to the Bay Area to Concord. I was just totally just totally bummed out. Were you? I was like, oh my God, we're not going to Santa Monica.
I don't wanna go to Concord. Yeah. And also, so I'd love to backtrack for a second too, if it's okay. Yeah. And then we'll continue on. Yeah. Because you were sixth grade or fifth grade when [00:05:00] it had, you just finished fifth grade when we left for Texas? Is that what it was? Maybe. Okay. Or you had fifth grade. I had this long, maybe we were, I was through half of fifth grade.
And then I was in sixth grade. Yeah. In Texas. So I think that's more, more accurate. Okay. So at that age too, so the culture shock of things, right? Yeah. You go from Santa Monica, California to Austin, Texas in the eighties. Yeah. Where, oh, the first day of school I had my vans on and people were making like, fun of me.
Like the kids were making fun of my shoes for having vans because I had the checkered vans. Yeah. And they were making like, fun of me. I, and being so being like shy. And I was like, oh my God, these kids are making like fun of me and what's going on. Yeah. You're, I was, these shoes are cool. I'm like, what?
And then a year later, a van store opened in the mall. Oh. Then the kids like, had the shoes. And I was like, now wait a minute, I'm a trendsetter. You, you didn't realize I was the trendsetter. And that was [00:06:00] in, in sixth grade. Yeah. Because, yeah. Okay. So we moved to Texas when I was in the middle of fifth grade.
Of fifth grade. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. I was only in first grade and Yeah. You know, so nothing bothered me except for I almost got eaten alive by aunt too. I know know. Yeah. It was like our first day moving into the house. I fall into an ant hill. Yeah. And I'm screaming. You were screaming. And dad is like rushing me to a bathtub to watch out.
Yeah. Yeah. So that was a good times. It's good time. Yes, I know. No, but I also just wanted to ask you like, how do you think that move and the fact that you, you, I didn't, I never knew that you thought we were moving back to Santa Monica. That, that was just me. No mom or dad. Never Phoenix said that. No, they said California that we were, but as, as soon as they, I heard California, I thought, oh, you we're going back to Santa Monica.
Great. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you think that has shaped or did shape your childhood in [00:07:00] growing up? Yeah, because Santa Monica, to me was like, like paradise and. Our family was there and all our, our extended family Yeah. Was down there. Still a lot of them. And so it really, it was really the first time that I ever realized what depression was.
Oh. 'cause I was just totally bummed out. Yeah. I was like, 'cause we got to Concord and we were renting that house not too far from El Dorado, and I was like, I don't like it here. I, this is a bummer. This sucks. Yeah. I, I don't wanna be here. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was my first exposure to that kind of like feeling.
Yeah. So that's, that was the first time, although move, although moving to Texas was shitty too, but yeah, it was different. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay, so let, so now you're in middle school and then high school and Concord. So what. [00:08:00] So just continue on for how Oh yeah. Your upbringing, your, and I know you found skating and stuff.
Yeah, it was So, seventh grade wasn't too terrible. I think I made a couple friends, but it was still really hard because I'm so shy. Yeah, yeah. Especially then I was really just totally cut off, like from the world. I was like, and I was getting into those you depressed states where I was like, I don't wanna be here.
I wanna go back to Santa Monica. But then the summer between seventh and eighth grade, my good friend then Trey, he had a Thrasher magazine. And I never had seen one. And it was, uh, because skateboarding for me, I would see it at like Venice Beach when I was a kid and I had a little skateboard, but never really got into it until I saw a Thrasher.
I was like, this looks cool man. I liked this. Yeah. [00:09:00] And he had, I think he had an old beat up board 'cause he had one, but then he was like, Hey, there's this other one that I have, it's beat up and if you want to use it. So I did. And that was the summer between seventh and eighth grade. So it started eighth grade and I was really getting like into it and it's was really the only thing that made me like happy was going out with my friends and skating, even though we were like, terrible.
That doesn't matter. We would try like tricks and stuff, but we really couldn't do it yet. But I remember I asked for a skateboard for Christmas in eighth grade and got one. Yeah, it was a black skull and Yes, that's, I remember it. Yeah, the, the Sword and skull is what it was called. The PAL per alta. I was gonna say, was it Pal Peralta?
Yeah. Oh yeah. And it was 85, so it was the, the style of boards that they had then. So I was really [00:10:00] excited. That was so cool. Yeah. But then. All I really wanted to do was skate,
because that's the only thing that made me feel better. Yeah. My grades in eighth grade were, because I was a really good, like student when I was younger. I started school, I, I was four when I started doing like kindergarten instead of five. Like a lot of kids. Yeah. It's your November eight, because I'm so close to the cutoff.
Yeah. And the teachers were like, he, he can do the schoolwork. It's okay if he starts. Yeah. 'cause mom was like, oh, maybe he's, you like too young or, but they said no, he can start. So I was, I've always been the youngest. Yeah. Like in my class. So my grades were starting to go down a little bit. I was starting to get C's instead of A's.
Oh. Because all I would ever think about was C was skateboarding. Yeah. And then I was reading more like Thrasher [00:11:00] and in, in the back of Thrasher magazine they have a music section. And of course since it was, was skateboarding, it was all like punk rock. Yeah. So I discovered the Dead Kennedys like minor threat and all these bands, and I.
So we, the Tower of Records in Concord, yeah. Was there Then of course, so we would skate all the way down to Tower, which was a long way. And we would go and search out all these like punk rock bands. And I forget, I think The Dead Kennedys live on a cassette tape, was the first one that I. Spot. Yeah. And I took it home and,
and I remember dad was like, what is the, yeah. What are you listening to? You know? Yeah. And I, I remember when you had the album cut like out and it said Dead Kennedys. Yeah. I remember mom and dad going, yeah, dead Kennedy. That dad flipped out, man. He was like, what [00:12:00] the hell is this? This is awful. And that's when my, you know, rebellious side started to come out, even though I was really shy, I was like, eh, I'm gonna skate and just, just listen to punk rock.
That's what I like to do, so that's what I'm gonna do. Yeah. But once my grades started going down, my mom was like, we're gonna take your skateboard away. That's right. That's right. And that lasted maybe a few weeks. And I was like, okay, I see my schoolwork. It's getting done. See, because I just, I love to skate because it was my outlet.
Of course. Yeah. I got it. Tell you this. There was an album that I brought home. It was Black Flag and it was called Slip It In,
and the the cover art is a nun holding onto a man's leg. Bear Leg. [00:13:00] Yeah. It was horrible. And you saw that at Tower Records and went shut. Yeah. I was like, oh, this looks great. Hopefully Dad's gonna love this. Yeah. Oh, I can't wait until I get this home dad. And so that's what happened. I got it home and. It was after school and I was even like listening to it, you know, in your room.
Yeah. Because mom and dad, this is typical like Gen X, like both the parents worked. Oh yeah. We didn't see our parents until, yeah. After five or five o'clock. Yeah. Something. And at least with mom. Yeah, for sure. Dad. Even later. Yeah. And I put it on, but it's just 'cause I liked it, but it was, I think in the, I put the record like on the ground and dad came home and he was just like, what?
He's like, what is this? What is this? You know? This is horrible. You can't have that here. Don't. And wait, and was this eighth grade, or was this now in high school? This was in eighth grade still. Oh wow. Okay. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. [00:14:00] It could have been when I was a freshman though, but, or the summer. Like in either between, either way around there still.
I don't remember exactly. I wanna say it's eighth grade though, but Okay. Oh yeah, he was pissed. A nun holding onto a man's like hair leg. It's, and slip it in. It's called. Slip it In. That's amazing. Oh yeah. And I think that's around that same time that the movie Suburbia where I saw that, you know that movie Suburbia?
Yeah. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. And that was that time where I was like watching it and And you were there. Yeah. And you would've been only like nine. 'cause I would've been about 13. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nine or 10, depending on, yeah. And the movie was on. Yeah. And Mom comes home. And it is that scene where that young lady's being, her clothes are being torn off.
Yeah. In the middle of a party at a punk rock show at a show. That's what it was. Yeah. It's a punk rock show. Yeah. And she walks in right when that scene happens. Yes. Yeah. [00:15:00] Oh my God. She was like, turn this off. What are you, what is this? You're watching? Wow. Yeah. In your sister's hair, huh? Yeah. And you, yeah, and you were like nine.
I'm just like, oh my God. This is what you're seeing when you're nine years old, and I totally remember it. But I remember just going, whatever. But then, and then, but then Mom's reaction made me think, go, oh, you know, also I was probably focusing on something else at not fully watching. Yeah. I don't, but I fully remember because you were always watching my My Skate videos and MTV and all that.
Oh my God. The, I saw every skate video, every Bones Brigade video. Multiple times. Multiple times. Because I put it on every day. Yeah. Because 'cause skateboarding was what I loved Yeah. To do. Yeah. No. And M TV I loved too, but that was, yeah. For everyone listening, and that was my life after school was MTV and Bones Brigade.
Yeah. Because I had no choice in the matter, because I was older and I [00:16:00] was like, this is my time. Yeah. If I wanted to watch anything, I had to watch what you were watching. Yeah. And you would roll in. To the TV room with Stouffers, mac and cheese that heated it up in the oven? Yeah. And then the pizza and then cheesecake.
Yes. I would eat half of an entire cheesecake. And those, that was those little ones, if anyone remembers. Like the smaller ones in the, yeah. Aluminum. Aluminum, yeah. What was the brand? Stouffer's one? Was that also Stouffer's? I think it was, yeah. Yeah. So you had the mac and cheese half and you wouldn't let me eat the cheesecake.
It's a total teenage diet, man. It was horrible. And you're set, you're such an older brother. Yeah. You're like, lay off my cheesecake. Oh, you, you could never have it. I could never have any. Okay. We're gonna watch you like both brigade, and I'm going to eat this. You're just gonna sit there and not do anything.
And you're gonna, we could have gone up to my [00:17:00] room and done something, but I actually enjoyed it. You must have, we laughed about it. Yeah. But you know. Yeah. I also ended up having such a huge crush on skaters. That's right. And I think that's right. Think it was because of those videos and your friends. Yes.
And I know we're skipping ahead a little bit, so you can go to whatever you want, but when you got the halfpipe in the backyard Yeah. That was in high school, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Year in high school, you remember? I was pretty young still. Probably freshman or sophomore. Really? Yeah. When the halfpipe went up?
Yeah. Oh, okay. I was pretty young, so, because I remember my friends and I like just watching. Yeah. You and your friends skate in the backyard? Yeah, from my bedroom window. Oh, yeah. Because I, we had such crushes on your friends, Chris and Jason. Yes. No, Jason. I had a huge crush on Jason. Yeah. So I, I was def so I was older.
Yeah, for sure. So it must have been, maybe it was later, was it, because I remember having the ramp and it wasn't up for all that [00:18:00] long. It was such a piece of junk. Yeah. It didn't last very long. I know. Yeah. But it was awesome though. But to have a crush like that, I was just thinking, I, I must have been older.
Yeah, you must, yeah. Being junior high, 12 or 13, so maybe I was like a, a junior maybe. But anyway, uh, but part of it was watching those videos too, I think. Yeah. Like you just, I'm like, Aw, like Lance Mountain is so cute. Yeah. Anyway, so that's how, anyway. Yeah. But that was my. Afterschool childhood for sure.
Yeah. I mean that. Yeah. And I will say too, you influenced me with music big time. Yeah. Since we're talking about music. Yeah. Now we'll go into that later, obviously. Yeah. Of how music has influenced you. But, and what, what changed? Like when I was in seventh grade? Yeah. The music that I love was that the hair metal stuff, but, but for, it was like, like Van Halen, of course.
Yeah. And then bands like, I loved, like Motley Crewe, like Shout at the Devil was, I just love that. I was just [00:19:00] like, oh, this is great. Awesome. Yeah. And that scene, pan DC Oh, when I was in seventh grade, went to one of the dances. And I, I remember this so distinctly. I went to the bathroom and I'm coming back out and I hear this, this music, and I'm like, what is this?
This is so good. This is awesome. And it was a CDC Oh. And I think it was Shook Me All night long. Yeah. That would be the dance song. Yeah. Yeah. That would be the, the popular like ac, CDC that everybody knows. And that if you wanna go back like further for the music that I heard first that I really liked was the Disney soundtracks.
Yeah, of course. And then I found it in the parents' records, the Beatles and the Rolling Stones like Fleetwood Mac, fleet Mac, yeah. The Eagles. Yeah. And all that, all the, that great like seventies music. When I got to [00:20:00] seventh grade, I was feeling a little more rebellious, like I said, so I was starting to listen to all this like metal.
Yeah. Which I really liked. But then, like I said, even Thrasher, I saw all these great like punk rock bands and that's what I loved when I was in, in high school. In high school as well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when did you start, when did you learn how to play guitar and start like that route That was.
Probably freshman year. Okay. Or sophomore. So, yeah. But I wanted to play drums. Yeah. You've always wanted to play drums. Yeah. Yes. And so this is where we get into our parents a little bit. They said, no way are we getting you drums. I just too loud. And it's just, and being so withdrawn when shy, I had no confidence about confronting people.
Yeah, of course. Even though I was listening to punk rock and stuff like that, it's, that was my little bit of rebellion, but it, it was nothing like, I'm gonna [00:21:00] go play drums, steam. Anyway. Anyway. I'll figure out a way. Yeah. Yeah. I, I didn't do that kind of thing, you know? Yeah. Just said no. And so you said Okay.
Yeah. I, I was just, alright. Just like bummed. Yeah. But I didn't didn pursue it 'cause I was scared. I didn't know who to talk to or where to go or anything. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's, yeah. How we grew up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean we can get into that in a second too. Yeah. Of just how we're two very different people, but yet we have this, yeah, we have the same parents.
Mm-hmm. And we could get into it now, but how we both, even though we're so different, we did respond to them in the same way. Yeah. Because the way I see it, and you can then tell me how it felt for you. Yeah. But looking back on it, we had two very sensitive parents who both never dealt with anything that went on in their lives.
Yeah. And [00:22:00] our entire childhood, at least it felt for me. Was just walking around gigantic elephants in the living room. Oh yeah. And step, trying not to step on eggshells. Yeah. Like walking around eggshells and giant elephants is how I see our childhood. It was the same for me. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you didn't want to cause any friction.
You didn't wanna start anything. Yeah. You didn't want to make anyone emotional. Yeah. So because they were so emotional. Yeah. You didn't wanna. Be emotional either. Yeah. Because it's more of like, how do we balance out Yeah. Having parents who are so sensitive. Yeah. That's how I, both of us are totally sensitive.
I, yeah. Including me. Really sensitive. Yeah. And so those two things, two things stand out when I wanted to play drums and they said no. And then when I was in high school, I had a drafting class [00:23:00] and I was pretty good at it. Yeah. And I remember saying, I think it was at the dinner table, I was like, yeah, I've been doing this drafting and I really like it.
Maybe I could be a, an architect. And dad said, you're not like good at math, so you probably shouldn't. And then that was it. That was it. Instead of saying, I could figure this out. Yeah. Because I, this is, yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think the two of us, that's where we were similar as well, is that we just listened to people.
Yeah. And I've even mentioned this in like a solo one before of. I was basically told not to upset other people. Yeah. Instead of thinking about mys what I want. Yeah. I mean we really, yeah. It was funny 'cause obviously I don't think they ever had that intention. Yeah. But it was just, yeah. No, it's not like they were doing it on purpose.
On purpose No. To keep us down. But it was just how things were. Yeah, exactly. And, and it was, it's just such an interesting thing. Like you said, we're both [00:24:00] sensitive, but the two of us held everything in. Oh God. Yeah. And that's, oh my God. Yeah. We can lead to mental health issues. Yeah. 'cause as we all know Yeah.
If you do not let things out, you're going and keep everything inside. Yeah. It's going to lead to a problem. Yeah. But because we're different. Yeah. My way of letting things out. Yeah. I did let things out. I just did not let them out in the way of ruffling any feathers. Yeah. I would then lie instead, oh, that's, yeah.
I was massive liar. I was like the best liar you could possibly imagine. Yeah. But it's because I didn't wanna ruffle any feathers. Yeah. So then we can, so how did you, 'cause we talked about holding things in. Yeah. So can you talk about where, because I'm guessing this is how and when mental health issues started up, right?
Yes. Yeah. So at about the same time that this was all like going on, which was [00:25:00] about 13, now I'm gonna jump ahead real quick then come back. But when I was diagnosed as bipolar when I was 40, something like that. I'm trying to remember the, so it was around 2010. Is that's when you were diagnosed was 2010?
Yeah. So I would've been what, like 39? Yeah. Something like that around there. Yeah. But the symptoms started when I was, way back, when I was 13. And I, I, because at first, like I said earlier, when we moved back to California, I was like, bummed, but it wasn't it. 'cause I know what it is now. It wasn't total depression, but once I reached like 13 and it, it, it started to show itself.
Mm-hmm. And being so scared of the world in general, I thought that it was that, but I, when I was [00:26:00] 13, I started like stuttering and feeling depressed even though I didn't really know what it was. Oh no. You don't have a name for it when you're 13. No. And especially back then. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, this was 80.
Five. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause now more, or I was like, yeah. So it was more like 84 then, because I was like 13, 14, right in there. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought I was just more of, I'm bummed out because I'm living in Concord and not Santa Monica. It was actually depression. Yeah. Like for real. Yeah. And so that during like high school, I was a mess.
It was bad. Yeah. Yeah. How was it showing up for you? Just except for my skateboarding friends, I basically just felt like I was cut off, you know, from the world. And I would just, weekends and stuff. If I wasn't like skating, I would just lock myself up like in my [00:27:00] room and I would listen to music. Music got me through it.
Yeah. But that was about it. If I didn't have music, I would've been dead a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like I didn't see you. Yeah. I remember thinking like, I feel all through your high school years, I never saw you. Yeah. And when I was a, except after school. Yeah. Yeah. But in high school though, I didn't see you after school as much, I don't think.
No. Uhuh a lot of MTV in 120 minutes. And yeah. A lot of that. But yeah. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry. And then my junior year, I was considering like dropping out. Oh yeah. I was just like, I don't wanna do this anymore. I don't know what I wanna do. Just go in a room, lock the door and Yeah. Black room. And then I feel better
now. Did you ever, but you don't really feel better, but No, of course you, you think you're doing something to combat it? Oh sure. Yeah. It's still there. Avoidance. And it's just getting worse and worse. Yeah. It's, that was just avoidance. And then when I was [00:28:00] 14, I discovered the alcohol. First time I ever got drunk was at a party at somebody's house, and I think I was 13 and I, I had a Budweiser beer and a wine cooler.
I'll never forget this. And I remember like how I felt still to this day I remember. And I was like, wow, this is cool. I like this. Yeah. It numbs me, right? Oh yeah. And I, and I feel good. Yeah. I don't feel depressed. Yeah. Even though like alcohol is a total depressant. Yeah. It makes you feel a little better, but then you're back right where you were before and even worse.
Yes. That's where the depressive part comes. Yes. Yeah. It's how you feel afterwards more than unless you're a depressive drinker. Yeah. Which there are people, which there are people who get more depressed when they drink, but, which I became like later on. So there was that part of it. And I, [00:29:00] during. Junior high.
I didn't drink. It wasn't like a lottery or anything, just going to parties like here and there and I'd have a couple beers or whatever. And even like high school, even though I was really having a hard time skating and music really got me through it. And I would drink sometimes with Jason and Chris and stuff and yeah.
But not really awful. But that came later. Yeah. And you did drugs and everything too, right? Some, but not a lot. I was more an alcoholic than drugs. Than drugs. Yeah. Which thank God, but you know. I know, right? Yeah. Yeah. And then when I graduated from high school and just went south, like even more like really bad.
The drinking, you mean? No, the OR. Or depression. Yeah. The depression. Yeah. Yeah. And my first episode of mania, I don't know if you, you remember this is when I took that bus to Seattle. Do you remember that? Yeah. Oh my gosh. I totally [00:30:00] forgot about that though. Yeah. 'cause Johnny was living in Seattle. Yeah. And you just went up there.
I just took off without telling the soul. Yeah. Yeah. So that was 'cause I liked steam photography and so I was doing, I liked, I was taking a, a photography class, A DVC, Tableau Valley College who don't know, that's a, a junior college that we have here in Pleasant Hill. And, but I was, it was so bad I couldn't even, I would keep going with, with the photo classes, but everything else I would just drop out after three weeks or something.
Yeah. And I was working, doing, I was working at a photography store, just making like prints from film and stuff like that was miserable. Yeah. My first episode of mania, I suddenly got this idea. Oh, I could just take a bus up to see Johnny, and maybe I can get a job there and just live there. Yeah. [00:31:00] And Johnny's our uncle.
Oh, yes. Sorry guys. For anyone who, yeah, no, it's okay. I understand when I'm talking, I just realized we were talking as, yeah. When I'm talking to you, I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, because Uncle John. Oh yeah. No, this is one of my mother's brothers that we're talking about. Yeah, Johnny. And he was living in Seattle, and I would've been about, I think I did that when I was like, like 19.
So I called a Greyhound, there was a Greyhound in Oakland. And to get the times for when the bus was gonna leave to Seattle, or it was maybe up towards near like Portland or something like, like that. So I had it all planned out. Didn't tell his soul. You didn't even tell Johnny. No,
I forgot that part. Yeah. Great. You didn't even tell him. Yeah. Great plan, huh? [00:32:00] Yeah. But this is what happens. No. When you're in an episode. No. You just have these delusions of grandeur. Yes. But can you explain what a manic episode feels like? Yeah. Usually you have an idea like delusion, sub grandeur, for instance.
Um, I just make this sudden very su and you see it's very, you, it impulsive. And so you start to make a grand plan for something. And I'm gonna use this example. If I go up and go up, you know, to Seattle and to Johnny. Maybe you can, he can give me a job and my life will be like so much better. Yeah. Yeah.
And it takes over your psych. You have no, what do you wanna call it? You, you have no like conscience about what you're doing or realistic realism. Realism. Yeah. Yeah. Realistic. Yeah. Your realism is just totally [00:33:00] blown. You don't, yeah. You don't think about, oh, visible. You don't have any thought about the consequences.
That's really the biggest thing. There's no consideration about the consequences. Yeah. You're just like, oh, I'm gonna do this and go here, or do this thing or do whatever and life will be so great. Oh my God, this is gonna be so awesome. Yeah. And it will change things. Yeah. Also, right? Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah.
And sorry. Or keep going. And also, oh, the other word is risk. I was just gonna say that it's very like you behavior, it's, and it can be dangerous for certain, yes. For people it, it can be very dangerous. Some people who have bipolar disorder have put themselves in really serious risk, dangerous situations.
But, sorry, go ahead. Maybe I should go, I dunno if I wanna go ahead and come back, but when I was living in, in Berkeley with Karen, you know, my ex-wife, this will come up later and I don't, that's a whole other story. Yeah. But yeah. [00:34:00] But anyway. Oh, I was, we were living in Berkeley and I was getting into art and u using like spray paint.
Okay. So I have this sudden like episode and this sudden urge to go like spray paint a wall in public public wall. Okay. Yeah. So I went down to the train tracks. Walked over to this wall and just started like spray painting. It was, it was during the Afghan war, and I was going to, 'cause I was into being like political art.
Mm-hmm. Right. And I was, I spray painted war his equal to, and this big like, number of the cost of it that I had seen on, on the internet, uhhuh, you know. Yeah. It was in, in broad, like daylight. Oh, this wasn't even at night? No, it was in broad daylight. I was out there spray painting a wall out out there where people could have seen [00:35:00] me.
I wasn't that far from the road. Yeah. It makes no sense at all. And you weren't arrested or No, nothing happened. No, but could have. I could have been. Yes. Exactly. And when I, it's what the could have been is a lot of the time too. You see, when you're in this state, you don't think about that. Yeah. That's why be dangerous.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And does it usually come. After being in a deep depression. Yes. Yes. And does deep depression come again afterwards of, of course. Okay. Okay. Yes. So jumping back to the trip to Seattle, I didn't tell a soul. Even being my uncle John, I, I went out to this, this bus depot in Oakland. I took Bart and I think I walked through the Oakland, one of the, one of the worst like neighborhoods in Oakland.
And go, got to, to the bus station. I got on the bus and [00:36:00] didn't tell the soul. And it wasn't until I got to the border of California and Oregon and it was like, like late at night. And I called home and Mom, she answered. Yeah. And I was like, Hey, mom. And she's like, where are you? Yeah. Yeah. And I told her I'm up in, I think it was the town of weed.
Oh yeah. I don't know if you know that. There's that town where Wade right there way up Northern California, right on the border. And she's, what are you doing? I was like, I'm like, I'm going up to Seattle to see Johnny. And she's, I think she even asked me, she's, does he know that you're coming? I was like, I, no.
Wow. And yeah. And this is before cell phones? This is before. Oh. I was using a payphone. So it isn't like. You were getting a bunch of calls and you were ignoring Yeah. You, this is before all that. Yeah. So I just wanna Oh, yes, yes. Like, put that into context as well. Yes. He was on a payphone Yeah, yeah. At the bus station in weed.[00:37:00]
'cause we had to change like buses anyway, so she was like, okay, I'll, I'll call him. Let him know that you're coming. Yeah. And then I get there and he's there to pick me up. And I was only there for a week. Yeah. And then I went back. Yeah. And then I, I was right back into depression. But that's how it happens.
That how, that's what happens. Yeah. So think of it as spikes down, up, down, up, down, up. And if you aren't on meds or Oh God, regulating it somehow, then it's. It can just spiral outta control. That's your life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I did that for a long time and made a lot of bad decisions. I made some good decisions, but they were impulsive.
While you were in a manic state, you made some good decisions, you mean, or just in life in general? No, I was, I think I was in a state of mania when I joined the military. Were you? Yeah. Oh, interesting. A little bit because that was one of those things I was [00:38:00] just, what am I gonna do next? I'm just sitting here being miserable.
Yeah. And the GI Bill, I remember you were thinking about the GI bill. It so it wasn't quite so bad because although I did do it really quickly impulsively, I did do it pretty impulsively because I never, I never told her parents that I was gonna go down to the recruiter. I know I just showed up there one day and the guy was like, oh, hi.
And I'm like, I wanna wanna join the Air Force. He, okay, great. You have to take a test first. And so I took the test and I don't remember if I told mom and dad before that or after that, but it was right. It could have been like after, 'cause the test results, I came back and the recruiter was like, oh, you did your, you can get in the Air Force.
And I'm like, okay, great. And then I went home and told mom and dad, I'm pretty sure that's how it went. Is it? Yeah. One of the key things here is that once I passed the test and knew that I could go [00:39:00] and I went down to the, the where they check you out, like physically. And one of the key things is that I had to wait to go, of course.
So I You're gonna come down from the mania by then. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was a test if I was still actually gonna go through with it. Yeah. Because when I decided to join, it was probably like winter. I had probably just turned like 21. So, and I think that was in the winter because I wasn't going to go until March.
Yeah. So I had to wait three months to go and I still did it. So there's that. Yeah. Yeah. So they it, even if it was, you know, impulsive, if it wasn't full like manic like episode, I might not have gone. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think that there was some planning around it too. Yes. Like you really did think, [00:40:00] I need to do something that'll just get me Yeah.
Out of here. And that was part of it. Yeah. I needed to get outta here. There's realism there. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So it was a mixture maybe. Yeah. Because at first it might've been pretty impulsive, but then it turned into, okay, this is gonna be really like, good for me, so I'm gonna do this. Yeah. Yeah. So you're glad you did that?
Yes. Was it a good decision for you? Yes, it was. Very much. Yeah. Yeah. And so you were in the Air Force and can you tell everyone where you were stationed? Yeah. First and then, yeah. So every, everybody goes to Lackland in San Antonio, the Air Force Base Lackland for bootcamp, that was for six weeks. And I did like really well.
I, there were like, the obstacle course for bootcamp was really cool. Was, it was really fun. And I got to shoot like rifles and Nice. And it was very like structured. Very structured. It's the military, it's bootcamp, it's very structured. And [00:41:00] I did fine with all of the yelling. Yeah. And I, and a couple times I got, they got feeling like in my face and was screaming at me and I was fine.
I, some guys didn't make it. No. 'cause they just can't handle that, which is totally natural. Yeah, of course. So I was one of the ones that that made it. And then I was stationed in Cheyenne, Wyoming. At f he, Warren Air Force Base, and I worked on nuclear weapons, so I was always at bases that didn't have any planes.
Oh yeah, yeah, that's true. I was in, in the Air Force and I was stationed at two different places with no planes. With no planes. Just like what? That's so funny. Are you, are you really in the Air Force? Yeah. You're wearing the uniform, but yeah, but, and had Warren, I worked on the warheads for the Peacekeeper Missile, which.
[00:42:00] They no longer have them apparently what I've heard and the minute meant three missile and that, so it was a pretty crazy job. Yeah. But I was doing well until my third year and I had been at Fe Warren for almost three years. And it's a depressing place because Yeah. I've been there. Oh yeah, that's right.
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Because of the weather, it gets like, winter seems to last like six months. It's just, it's all flat and Yeah, when it's not the winter, if you're into things like we were being like mountain biking, oh, then it'd be fun. And yeah, being like hiking and stuff like that is pretty cool.
And I was then and, but that was only in the summer, which only lasts for two months. Yeah, yeah. But then we would like snowboard like in the winter, but. That makes you happy for only a couple days. Yeah. And you'd go to ca, Colorado, right? You would take trips to Colorado? Yeah, [00:43:00] but I hadn't dealt with my anti depression, which I still had, and I was drinking like a fish.
It was, yeah, it was bad. But a lot of us were, of course, what else are you gonna do? Yeah. Honestly, if you're in a place like that, yeah. Yeah. I would think that, how do you fill your time? And I would, I would drink to drunkenness every day just to get through it. And that was my third year there. And the first, in second year, I was drinking like quite a lot, but it didn't, didn't seem to be as bad as that third year that, that I was there.
And then I went to Greece, which was cool, but I still had that thing in my back. I just wanted to. Like numb myself with alcohol. Yeah. And grease is, yeah. We all partied hardy. Yeah. I got stories. I don't know if this is appropriate, but we would, [00:44:00] we we drank a lot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I remember going to the, in the summer, going to one of the islands and, and all the girls had come down from Great Britain and France and stuff.
We were like, Hey, well yeah. Right. Yeah. What do you, summertime here is nice. That's really good. I remember drinking entire bottles, you know, of champagne and myself, my, yeah. And we just drink and dance and party and Oh my God. We had fun in the summer. That was for sure. Oh yeah. But then the winters in Greece and get really cold and miserable.
Oh, my bet. People don't seem to realize that, but Yeah. Yeah. Everyone thinks of summertime. Yeah. When they think of Greece. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's how we dealt with it. And that was your last year in the Air Force, right? Yeah. Was Greece. Yeah. Okay. And then we had our trip. Yes. Yes. We had our trip through Europe.
Yeah, we year railed. Yeah. That was so great. Yeah. We did the thing. That was awesome. Yeah, it was great. Yeah. I remember how much [00:45:00] we drank at the Heineken plant. Do you remember that? Had answered that? Yeah. It was like, not stop, Heineken. It was like noon. Yeah. And we were hammering beers because you could drink as much as you wanted in one hour.
In one hour. So they would just keep refilling your glass. So we would just keep drinking. It was like, yeah. Brunch with 20 small little beers with mimo. Like instead of mimosas. It was Heineken. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, because I was drinking a lot at that time too. Yeah. So we both could just pound our shit.
Yeah. Yeah. But I don't remember us drinking. Constantly though. No. During that trip? No. Like we both could just put it down, but yeah. We weren't like constantly drunk No. Or anything. But then we go to the Heineken Brewery. Yeah. We were like free beer for an hour. Oh boy, dude. Yeah. But, and that's when we found like really awesome beers too.
Oh yeah. During that trip And in, in Germany. In Germany. And Yeah, there was Austria, France, [00:46:00] Connor, Fran, Connor Paul. Paul Paul. Oh yeah. Anyway, yeah, that was a great trip though, 'cause Oh yeah. It was amazing. Yeah. I'm gonna do that again. Wouldn't that be awesome? That would be great to, to retrace the, that would be so cool.
Anyway. And then, so then after that a 'cause then you did go to college. Yeah. Yeah. I went to, I back at DVC first. Yeah. But I, I was got almost like straight A's and I was like going to class motivated and then I went to Sonoma State University. I mean, geography major. I, I love maps and being in geography.
So that's what I was doing. And Sonova was beautiful. Oh yeah. I, man, what an awesome place. And I was into like, cycling and it was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. And, but once I, I graduated straight down to the bottom. Yeah. I was just miserable because I didn't [00:47:00] have any direction and I wanted to stay in, in Sonoma, but there, there was no like, job market there.
There's nothing there except like wineries. Yeah. Yeah. I, I did work still for the state of California. I had this job I was doing, uh, like mapping for the state, and it was an office job. I was in front of a computer for the whole day. Yeah. I hated it. Yeah. And I was like, damn it, I love Mapmaking and stuff, but I'm just, I hate this.
I don't think I was working there. And I would just lay in bed for hours. I was watching like Tour de France, like videos, like took tapes that I had, you know, recorded. Yeah. Of the Tour De Frances. 'cause that's how much I love like cycling. I would, but hours and hours and just laying in bed and just watching this.
Yeah. The tv, you know, and drinking and, yeah. Oh yeah. And [00:48:00] I was with Kim then she was with my girlfriend then. And we, yeah, the both of us weren't doing well and I hit this mania again and I'm like, you know what? I really love photography. I should get back into it. I'm gonna go to, to Brooks Institute of Photography.
Yeah. Delusions of grandeur once again. And so I get on the computer and it was, it's a private school, but. They were owned by one of those, God, what do you even call it? The University of Phoenix. Oh, it's, it's like private, but yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it was bought out by a company like that. Oh, okay. Yeah.
Yeah. And they would just, you like give you money. Yeah. Loans, money it was giving, yeah. In Brooks being a private photography school, which was very expensive. Yeah. But I didn't care. I didn't see [00:49:00] that. You didn't think about all that? I didn't care. Yeah. I was like, oh, oh, cool. I can go. I was there in three weeks anyways, I remember that.
Yeah. Three weeks later I was in Ventura at this school. Yeah. That again, it makes no sense. That's impulsive. I had been in Sonoma for years, a few years going to college. I had a degree, a ba, and now I'm suddenly at this. Photography school that's costing me like thousands of dollars. Yeah. Although it made sense to you at the time.
Oh, sure. Because it was like mania. Yeah. And then, yeah, so I was there for two years and Kim went to Thailand to teach like English. Yeah. And you guys were engaged at one point. At one point, right. Then it all just be like, fizzled out. Fizzled out. Yeah. You know, mainly because I left. [00:50:00] Yeah. And then she's in Thailand and Yeah.
Yeah, because she, I just left like suddenly. Yeah. And then the apartment that we were in, she couldn't afford it and we both couldn't. 'cause I was at the school. Mm-hmm. And I didn't have a job or anything. Yeah. And um, so she had to like, move out and find like a room to rent or something like that. And it's fucking, it's horrible.
And I lasted, how long was I there? A year and a half or two years. I was gonna say, was it two years? Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And then I just suddenly dropped out. Same thing that I had done years before. 'cause I finally got it like in my head that this is really expensive and I don't know how I'm gonna pay for this.
Yeah. That, that finally af after two years. Yeah. It finally dawned on me that this is, how am I gonna pay? Maybe not the best idea. Yeah. But how can you get, it's not so easy to get a job as a photographer. [00:51:00] No. That'll pay all these loans off and Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah. I was just the d you know, the dumbest thing I that I could've done, and I don't know if I wanna blame anyone.
Nobody told me that it was a bad idea. Would it have mattered, do you think? At first, probably not. Yeah. But I wouldn't have been there for as long if someone just kept nagging you about it. Maybe. Yeah. Or someone said, yeah, are you sure you're doing the right thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody was doing that. It, I was just seeing like on my own, we never got that either, by the way.
Yeah. We never got the, or do you maybe wanna rethink this? Yeah. Or yeah, yeah. No, I never heard that. No. Yeah, because so I'm sure you never did either, or honestly, if we did, I honestly think both of us would ignore it. Yeah. Would do it anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And I dunno if there's anything we want to go back to, but we [00:52:00] might just Yeah.
At some point, you know, so, so I decided to leave Phoenix Brooks and I had a girlfriend at Brooks and she was from, from Apple Valley. Out far east and north of LA and I went with her up to her parents and was living there for a little while. I was working at the, at FedEx on the dock. Oh yeah. The FedEx Freight.
I totally forgot that. Yeah. Oh, that's wild. Okay. Oh, I forgot about that whole Yeah. Time period for you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And it was horrible. I was just being like, miserable. Yeah. Working this you like terrible job. Yeah. And it, so then, oh, so then I, I, oh, then I moved back up to Concord. I left her. I was like, I gotta go back to Concord.
There's a job waiting for me there. Mom had talked to, or dad? No, mom had talked to a family friend [00:53:00] who has a. A flooring like company. Oh. And I did that for two weeks. I was like, that's fucking horrible. I can't even handle this. Yeah. And then mom knew somebody at the city of Concord. Yeah. And he worked for the city and he was like, I can get him a job here.
And she told me that. I was like, oh yeah, that'd be better. So I started doing that and that wasn't bad. You were living with mom and dad though, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. I was, how old was I? Late thirties. Some people were saying, yeah, you might be able to get a job here like full-time. 'cause I was working, I was considered like temporary.
Yeah. Which is only for six months. And so I was working there and I, I was actually not too bad. It was all right. I had a goal, like maybe, oh, I can get a job here and things will be better. Yeah, no, a little more motivation. Yeah. Yeah. Like there seems to be a theme here. There's a pattern. There's a pattern.
Yeah. Yeah. [00:54:00] When I'm feeling like motivated and it seems that, you know, there's, there's goal. Yeah. There's a goal for me to get to. If I get to that goal, great. But after it, if, if there isn't another goal, yes. That's the thing. It sounds like it helps you to have multiple goals. Yes. To continuously go for, okay.
You know, the Air Force was a goal. College was a goal. Yeah. And then that's why it fell off, because what do I do after college? Yeah. If there's nothing set up for me, yes, I have the degree, but where's the job? Yeah. What do I do next? Yeah. Where's the job connected to that degree? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
Because after college, excuse me, there, there was a job that I was already like working at. But I was miserable. I didn't like it. Yeah. It wasn't a job that, that I liked. That you actually wanted. Yeah. So then you're like, I need something else. Yeah. Yeah. So then you're thinking about the next like, so there's also like mania because you're totally [00:55:00] depressed and that's when have a manic like episode.
That's what happened when I went to Brooks. Yeah. There's this patterns Totally pattern. Yeah. When you're not medicated and not seeing a, a psychiatrist. Yeah. That's it right there. That's what happens. You're up and down and, and then if you have nothing to look forward to. Yeah. So that's the problem too, that, yeah.
So you're working for the city. Yeah. Part, not temporary. Temporary, yeah. Yeah. I'm in. I'm not living with mom and dad at least. And then a job did pop up for full time. And I was like, oh cool, I'm gonna try it. And I got it. I went through the whole like process. 'cause you have to take a test. They, and they weed out, you know, three quarters of the people through a test.
Yeah. 'cause I'm sure they get so many applicants for that. Oh it was, there were like hundreds of guys. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's like, oh shit. The same thing had happened. 'cause while I was working like temporary, I was looking, you know, for other jobs, one was a, [00:56:00] was Chevron. Oh yeah. I don't know if you remember this.
I do. But I went and tested and I got called in for the interview and I did, well apparently 'cause a family friend with mom. Yeah. Was, you know, was in that room and she said, oh yeah, Matt did really well. And then I get a letter saying, oh, sorry he didn't get it. And then I hear that they only hire like family if you're related to somebody who works there.
Those are the only people that they hire. That doesn't make sense. I know. It's really, I don't know how true that is. And that really bought me out. And then, but then I had the second chance with this full-time thing and mm-hmm. I interviewed well and I got it. Yeah. And I was actually, at that point I was really like, happy about it.
Yeah. But then the, the crash in 2008 happened. Yeah. A year later. Yeah. And [00:57:00] so they let go of a lot of people, but I was able to, to stay on, but they, they cut our wages and so because I was out of my paycheck, I was paying for healthcare, I was making just as much money as, you know, the temporary guys. Oh yeah.
Yeah. I was like, I can't even pay rent now. Yeah. You can't even make ends meet. Right around that time I met like Karen, so we were living together. I don't know how my drinking wasn't being like terrible, but I was drinking like every day. You were still drinking? Yeah, but not getting drunk every night. I would get drunk, but Oh, you would, you mean, but maybe not every night.
Oh. But I'd have a buzz 'cause I But you would get buzzed? Yeah. Oh yeah. That's the thing. We've talked about quite a lot of stuff in the past half hour, but constant is that I would [00:58:00] drink every day. Maybe not to total like passing out and getting hammered, but I would drink every day. Yeah. Yeah. I would get home from work whichever work it was.
And I'd, I'd go for the beer. I was gonna say, what was it? It was when I was living in Sonoma County, I was drinking a lot of wine because it is wine country. It's wine country and it's really good. And there, there were times we would, I would go out to dinner. There was a lot of times where I was like, by myself and Kim.
I wasn't there. I'm not sure what was going on, but I remember going like by myself to have dinner and drinking an entire bottle of wine. At dinner. Yeah. At dinner. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and like driving home. And that was college that No, that was after af but you were still in Sonoma. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so now, and so you're in Berkeley when you're living with Karen.
Yeah. And you're just So that's beer. We were in Martinez [00:59:00] first. That's right. And then the fire happened. That's right. Oh yeah.
So here we go. Uh, yeah, sorry. I was like, wait, where are we now? Yeah. And what year is this again? Say, oh, Jesus. Uh, 2009. Nine. Okay. Pretty sure. So we're, we're living together in a Martinez, in a apartment building this big. Complex. And it was on, it was Labor Day weekend and it was, so it was like September beginning first or something?
Beginning of September. Yeah. September 1st or something like that. And we, it was a three story like building. And the second floor, there was no like tenant below us, but the first floor, there was a guy that lived down there, and then I was in bed, like sleeping. And she wakes me up and says, Matt, there's a fire.
I'm like, whoa. It was like one in the morning. Yeah. [01:00:00] Yeah. I was like, holy shit, why? And our bedroom, there's all this smoke like pouring in and I'm like, holy shit. So I get up and I put my pants on. 'cause I thought maybe, oh, I, I got a minute here. Let me get, so I was able to put my pants on. I. I ran out and I grabbed my, my wallet and my keys and flames were starting to come in our living room.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I was like, Karen, we gotta get the hell outta here. She was looking for one of the cats that we had. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And we gotta go. Come on. So we just, you like ran out. We were gonna take the stairs, but I, I touched the door and it was like red hot E Yeah. It was, it, the fire was like right there, right there.
Yeah. So luckily there's the hallway that goes down to the other end of the building. And there were stairs there. Stairs there too. Yeah. Yeah. We get outside and we look up to where our, [01:01:00] her compartment is. And it was completely engulfed in flames. Yeah. Whoa. We made it by just a few minutes. Yeah. Did anyone die in that fire?
I don't think so, no. Oh. Be because the second floor was empty. If there had been somebody on the second floor, they probably would've died. Yeah. Yeah. And what started it again? It was the guy's oven or something. That's what they claimed. Oh, we thought it was, he might've been cooking some drugs. Oh yeah.
Yeah, because he was kinda shady. Oh, he was a, he was a shady dude. Yeah, because they said that he like left it on accident or something. The oven on. Yeah, he fell asleep and the oven wa was on. But it's really, you're like, huh. I don't know. It was pretty sketchy. Like how could it like happen that fast?
'cause it was explosive. It wasn't just a fire, it was like boom, fire bomb. And there it is. Yeah. So it could, yeah. Was definitely something more Yeah. That was cooking. Yeah, man. So that happens. [01:02:00] Yeah. And then I don't know if it, it was one of my episodes or what, so we decided to get married. Wait before the marriage part.
Okay. Okay. Yeah. What kind of state were you both in after all that? Oh, it was totally PTSD. Yeah. And it, she was especially distraught because of the cat. Yes. That we lost. Yes. The cat died, right? Yeah. One of them did. Yeah. She got one, but the other couldn't find the other. So she's distraught by losing one cat.
Yeah, and I'm trying to. Go down to State Farm and get our money. 'cause luckily we had like renters, renters insurance, insurance. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm taking care of that. I'm trying to get my, my car key because, 'cause my car was still there, so we had to, dad took me down to a dealer and I got a key that I could use to get into the car and all of that kind of stuff.
Yeah. And, and you were living at mom and dad's? Yeah. The two of you were in that one little bedroom? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [01:03:00] Upstairs. Yeah. And I remember mom saying how exhausted you were. Oh God, just exhausted. Yeah. Like dealing with putting the list of things for the insurance and like dealing and then, and we, you're, and then you're with someone who is so distraught and Yeah.
Also has mental health issues, who also has mental health issues. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I'm just putting that into perspective for everyone. Yes. This is like Yeah. Serious stuff here. Yeah. Okay. So then because you decide to get married, so when you're at Walmart. Buying my clothing because you don't have any clothes left.
Yeah. You have nothing. Um, literally everything. Yeah. You was every, didn't have, you didn't have anything. I had my wallet and, and my keys. And she, did she have anything besides the cat? I don't think so. She didn't even have time to grab her. I think she was able to grab her purse, but her purse. But that was it, right?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's all we had, like in the world. Huh. So it's, it was a little stressful. Yeah. To say the least. And then I forget how long, three weeks [01:04:00] later we're like, Hey, let's get married. It makes no sense at all. Yeah. Like mania on top of when you go through something like that together. Yeah. Maybe it's, can we find something happy out of all of this?
There was, or I don't know, maybe it was something like that. Yeah. So we were, I remember we went back to the hotel, back to the main apartment and we were searching for the other cat. Oh yeah. So we were there at the, the building. So you see the aftermath. So we see our, at your place just completely gutted.
Our, our apartment is all like black. Yeah. And the, the company, it was either the, yeah, it was the fire investigator went up and took like video of our apartment and the management sent us of the DVD with the video. And I watched what our place like looked like. Oh geez. It was all black, it was all soot.
There was like nothing there. Oh God. It was just, [01:05:00] yeah. What a weird, and the roof was all gone. What a weird experience like revelation, see? Or, it was crazy. Yeah. And so both of us were not in a good state. So you decided to get married. Yeah. And the reason is obvious because we thought it would fix it, you know?
No, of course. No, I'm just saying. Yeah. The aftermath of. Experiences like that together. You gotta, something good has to come of it, right? Yeah. And what I didn't hear until like later from mom was that they thought that I shouldn't like get married to Karen. And again, this comes up. Why didn't you tell me before?
What did you say? Anything? I did it. The same thing happened to me. No one told me not to marry. Yeah. Yeah.
When people knew people, same thing where people were like, I don't really like him. No one told me that. Yeah. Yeah. I, and everyone says though, what would you have done if we told you? Everybody [01:06:00] says that. Yeah. Would you have gone with through it anyway? Yeah, maybe. But it would've been in the back of my head.
Yeah. I don't, yeah, but how you don't know what you don't know. I dunno what I would've done. It was because no did was. I think it was in three weeks, maybe a month. It was really soon after. It was really soon after. Yeah. Yeah. We still had like PTSD from this thing that just happened to us. We're not thinking clearly.
Yeah. And we think our, our happiness was being together 'cause we were able to latch on like to each other during this, this horrible thing. Of course. Yeah. That just happened. Yeah. So the only thing that felt good was to, so yeah, that was wild. Yeah. A bad I idea. Just like some other bad ideas I've had.
I hope you enjoyed that conversation with my brother. I hope you will come back to part two where he talks [01:07:00] about more mental health struggles that happen, but then getting through it and how he found sobriety. As well as treatment and everything else that falls into his life that brings him to where he is today and how he is the happiest that he's been in a long time.
So I hope you come back to that. Thank you so much for listening. I appreciate you and I hope you are doing well.
