[00:00:00] Welcome to the average nineties GAL podcast. Join me as I share my own journeys through life, how I got and continue to get through them, as well as real stories from real people in this crazy world. Let's get through it together.
Hello and welcome. I am very excited to share this episode with you with two of my favorite people, Billy and Tara, and I just have to share that unfortunately, because we were recording this online. Poor Billy's tech issues got in the way, and there is an entire chunk of the episode [00:01:00] where Billy uh. Billy wasn't being recorded and we didn't know it.
He kept having to go out and come back in multiple times because of audio issues and computer issues, and so I really think we're going to have to, uh, have them on again maybe for a follow up. Also, this was recorded in the end of 2025. It took a while to get this published because of all of the strange recordings and how they were downloaded and anyway, we don't have to get into that, but I did wanna share that with you.
Let's just say that recording remotely can just have its challenges and that it is what it is, but I still had to share it because they both say. Really [00:02:00] amazing things, and I'm going to call this episode the Gen X, Y, Z because it really is going through what the generations think about life and how we were all raised and what.
Life is like in the workforce and at work, and with teams and supervisors, they both say just gems. That I hope you also can learn from and take from and enjoy it. And now onto my episode with Billy and Tara. All right, Billy and Tara, thanks for being on the show. How are you? Good, how you happy? Thank you for having us.
Yeah, of course. I'm good. I'm good. So you both know the [00:03:00] drill and how about Billy, we start with you. If you can say your generation, the year you graduated, high school, your upbringing, all of that information. Sure. So I am a millennial. I think the middle level millennial, they're different waves, but I'm from 1990, I graduated high school, oh man, 2008, I think, which is wild to think about.
And I grew up in New Jersey, like everyone it seems. I feel like I meet us everywhere. We've dispersed throughout the earth. But yeah, it was a pretty cool place to grow up. And can you tell me about your family background and your family dynamics and all of that? Yeah, so I grew up with my mom and dad.
They got divorced when I was young, but they were all, they were friendly with each other and I was always around the both of them. And then my aunt and my grandma lived together in my grandma's house. And so I would always [00:04:00] have that as like a home base even more than I think. My regular home, go to grandma's house, get food, get cookies, that kind of thing.
So I miss those days. It was a good time. All right. And Tara, what about you? Tell me about yourself. I am Gen Z, resident Gen Z in this little trio of us. I wa I graduated high school in 2017 and I also grew up in Jersey. I'm a Jersey girl. Through and through. But grew up in northern New Jersey, so a little bit further from Billy, which I do think makes a slight distinction.
Jersey is proud of north and south is central, really a thing that great debate. And I grew up with my mom and dad and my older brothers, the four of us growing up. But my dad did die when I was younger. So when I was 14 he passed away by suicide. And then it's just been my mom, my brother, ever since Our little strong little trio I have at home.
Yeah. [00:05:00] And you are a e huge Eagles fan, right? Is that M Go Birds? Yeah. And that's be, is that because of the section of Jersey that you grew up in? No, I am a rare breed up in northern Jersey. Southern jersey is definitely more Eagles territory. Okay. I know to be a Giants or Jets fan, but in all good children sibling rivalry.
My brother, when he was younger and my dad loved football, my dad loved the Giants. My brother obviously had to pick a team. He didn't go with the Giants, so he liked the wings on the Eagle's helmets and he has been a big fan ever since. And I growing up with predominantly my brother for most of my childhood I just was a bandwagon fan and now I'm my own true fan and love them on my own.
Yeah, that's great. Yeah. So I'd love to hear your like college story where you went to college, all of that as well. Yeah. So graduated high school in 2017, and then I made my way up to [00:06:00] Massachusetts. I went to college with the Holy Cross for college. Loved it, and I graduated in 2021. I was attracted to it for family school reasons.
A bunch of my relatives, my older brother was a senior at the time and a. When I first was applying, I was like, I will not be going to that same school as he is. But then as the decisions came out, it just made more and more sense it, I just wanted a college where I wasn't just a sea like a student in a large ocean that wasn't, I was like.
I didn't wanna be just a number in a lecture hall. I wanted to have an experience where I could get to know my professors and walk to campus knowing people. So that's what really attracted me to it. And I studied psychology and religion, loved it. I also studied abroad when I was in college. I went to Ireland, and then I also did a semester program down in dc, actually very similar to where Billy was, but COVID.
Cut me off down there when I was actually interning for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention when I was down there for the, my DC semester in their [00:07:00] policy office writing about how firefighters and first responders have mental health just as much as everyone, and we rely on them when we're in crisis.
But who do they go to when they're in crisis? I got kicked out 'cause of COVID and moved back home and then finished out college at the end. Tail end of COVID. It was a very interesting time to be in college and then graduated. Entered the real world. I came back home to Jersey even though I did really fall in love with the New England Life's.
Style and everything that Massachusetts has to offer. It's definitely not a city that's off the table for me to go back to, but moved back home with my mom and wanted to, it was a broke college shoot that needed to save some money before the real world money of a full-time job started to kick in. So I started applying for jobs and I landed a job.
Also at the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention on the Walks team. And that is where it came to be that the three of us met each other with Meredith, you being my boss and Billy being my [00:08:00] coworker. And now I have been here for four years, which is crazy to think. Yeah, yeah, no, so. That's a good segue into the fact that I was the supervisor of the two of you and I hired both of you.
So wild. And, but it's also a testament to the fact that we're still friends and we still stay in touch. And I always, whenever I go to New York, I always send texts. To the two of you and other former team members. So I think I did a really good job at hiring. Let me just say, I'm gonna toot my own horn for a second because I was your Tara, was I your very first boss?
Is that right? Like your My very first full-time job boss. Yeah. Obviously I had my little part-time gigs growing up and whatnot, but you were my first real world boss. Real world boss. Yeah. See I did a good job. So no, the two of you have always been two of my favorite people. That's why I'm so glad to have [00:09:00] you on here.
And yeah, so you. You're, you mentioned this, Tara, that you have, you're thinking maybe one day that you'll go back to Massachusetts maybe? Or what are you thinking? No, it's definitely not on off the table. I, right now I'm in Hoboken, right outside of New York City on the Jersey side. I guess the Jersey girl and me couldn't resist.
But I also just didn't want to live my life in a shoebox as a fresh outta college real world person. So I have sided on in Hoboken and I love it here. I'm a really good friend group here and building a really good base. I love being close to our office, even though we're technically remote. I like having the access to be in person from time to time.
I do I, it's something about New England. I grew up going to Cape Cod during the summers. That's where my grandparents were. Most of my mom's family's up in Massachusetts, so just holds such a special place for me. And I think similar to how Billy May feel about Philly, I feel the same way about Boston, that it's a little bit quieter [00:10:00] than New York City.
It has it like a charm to it that I'm really attracted to, but who knows what's coming. Yeah. The fact that we are three generations here on. This episode, I would love to dive into our differences and similarities in our generations and as well as possibly leading into misconceptions and things like that, but I'd love to start with.
Not work. Let's not start with work. Let's start with the fun stuff. So something that I have noticed being a Gen X person is dating seems to be such a different world for millennials and Gen Zs. And not to say that Gen X does not date the same way, but I am so different. Mainly because even in high school I hated dating.
I thought it was the worst thing ever. So to me, going on an app and [00:11:00] having a date with someone, I don't know, is a total nightmare. It's a nightmare for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. No total nightmare. And I'm not saying it's not a nightmare for other generations, but I will say it seems to be. For millennials and Gen Zs because you maybe grew into adulthood with it already being a thing, or at least social media.
And Billy, I would, I think you should have a course on how to manipulate Hinge. But, but anyway, but I don't know if how I want, the reason I'm, it's such a long like, leeway into this. I'm not sure exactly what I wanna talk about. How, how has the dating, what is the dating culture like for the two of you?
Why don't we just say that I, anyone who wants to jump in, it just seems like a whole different world to me. That makes zero sense. So I don't know who wants to jump in, but what is it like dating right now, especially for Gen Z? I don't know. A world of dating without an app. The grand scheme, like yes, obviously [00:12:00] when we, like we were in middle school, like we were still like the little kids being like, that boy likes me.
I wasn't there. But when I got to like that age of like truly trying to date and in college and whatnot, like the apps are a large part of it already of my landscape. And like I have friends that are now married and they've met because of a dating app and it's just so normalized where I think my mother's always, I can't imagine that.
And I'm like, I can't imagine not having it. I'm not the biggest fan. I think a lot of what the dating app culture has come out to be is just people going on one-off dates and not really finding connections. I know more people that have gone on the gamifying of dating that the apps have created of, as Billy said, yeah, you can match with 20 people, but how many true connections can you find?
And I totally hear Billy when he says like the idea of meeting someone in real life and the meat cute of it all. Like I think those stories are so rare. I just think dating is not [00:13:00] really a thing and I like either in a full long-term relationship or you're on the struggle bus with the rest of us trying to find someone.
It feels like there's no good in between right now. That's interesting. And have you been dating Tara or like going on dates or are you doing like what Billy's doing? Seeing if it'll happen organically. Also, I would love for you to tell everyone how many weddings you've been to lately.
I'm dating as much as I can with everything that I'm doing outside of my work time and traveling, and this year has been dating. Ha. Definitely hasn't been on the f. Forefront. My friends trying to set me up have been, but no, not a lot of 'em on the apps. I'm not a will. I'm like willing to admit that. I'm not shameful about that.
But I have not met someone successfully quite yet. But yes, I am. I have somehow reached an age where there's enough people in my life that have been together with someone that they have decided to be married. So I have gone to four [00:14:00] weddings this year and I was in three of them. And there are so many wonderful people in my life.
Wow. It Wedding season is no joke. It's exhausting. That just makes me exhausted and I love them. And one thing true to me, like I, I love, like I'm definitely a lover girl. Like I want that wedding one day too. But it is exhausting. It is tiring between bachelorettes flying across the country week after week, but there's so much love and so much joy, and that's how I viewed it.
After all those long, like Sunday nights finally getting back to my own bed, I'm like. My favorite people are so happy and that's worth every minute of it. Yeah, I was gonna say, it's the exhausting part to me is all is thinking about everything that goes with it, especially when you're in a wedding all, and especially now that bachelorettes are now these trips and I didn't, we didn't do trips.
Now it's like this huge extravaganza that lasts months in a way. Every night is themed and there's vibes, [00:15:00] there's Pinterest board sent for all of them. Oh really? Um, yes, they, it is, it's definitely a lot. But yeah, there were one of them, the running jokes in my friend group this year with my weddings is that one of them, I was the 6:30 AM getting ready spot.
So I was ready fully for the wedding by 8:30 AM. The wedding was not until three 30. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow, that's, that takes a lot of work. Just making sure your makeup stays right and your hair stays for that long. Thankfully, someone else did it. I was just sitting there in the chair. But yeah, I was fully bloomed.
Yeah, since 8:30 AM Hey, did you meet anyone at the weddings or is that where people were trying to set you up? I was set up on a few of them, but nothing came of it. Okay. But they were also, all of the weddings weren't near me, so I also, a big part of what I would. Prioritize in my dating life is not having long distance.
I think that's just so hard to maintain or to start off that, I think when you [00:16:00] have a foundation in life for path careers separate you or have to move cities, I think that's one thing. But I don't think I'm gonna be dating a man in California when I live in the New York City area. No. If you're starting off like that, yeah, that's, that's when the one night stand wedding situation happened.
Let's be real. That's for that and that's, or when you say, oh, where are you from? And they tell you, California, you go, okay, this is as far as the, this can go. So I have friends who got married when they were like 19 and 20. So it seems to me like looking at you with your friends and Billy as well, it's a li like marriage and having kids seems to be starting a little later for everyone, but, or is that just what I'm seeing?
No, I definitely think it, we, I lovingly call my three friends that got married that I was in the weddings, child brides. Like, I'm not ready for marriage at this point, at this age, even if I was in a long-term relationship with someone, I think. At 26, there's so much life to be had. I [00:17:00] personally, I love my friends.
I'm glad that they, they did what they needed to do and I support them. I think they're all like special, unique circumstances too. I don't think it is the norm. 'cause when I look at my friend group locally here in Hoboken and in New York City, one of us is in a relationship out of probably 12. Yeah. So it's definitely a different landscape.
And I also feel, at least for my generation, I think. It's the first time we're, as females, we know we have options. Especially I think a lot of like. When I was younger, it was a little like my older cousins and all of that. It was like a timeline, like I, you needed to be pregnant by X date for a healthy pregnancy and making sure the baby comes to term.
And I think the science behind all of that has also helped liberate my generation to being like, I can focus on my work. I can figure out who I wanna be as an individual before I enter a relationship, before I have to think about what starting a family looks like and when that timeline is. So [00:18:00] expensive.
It's expensive to start a family and get married and all that comes with that, that I think a lot of our generation, when rent is this high, like I, I don't have the means for that. Yeah, yeah. Especially now. It's never okay. It's always gonna be expensive to have a kid, but I feel like right now I understand why everyone is just.
People are budgeting for the first time in their lives. Some adults, full on adults are going, oh my God, I gotta start budgeting myself included. Just more so than I used to, just because of everything being so much more expensive. So I totally get that. I remember. Someone telling me once when I was saying the same thing, I was married, but I was saying to someone, we're waiting to maybe make more money to be able.
And he looks at me and he goes, you're never gonna have enough money for a kid. That shouldn't be the reason, just so you know. That'll never be, that should never be the reason be or else you'll [00:19:00] never have kids. So I also say that as a genzer that wants a big family, like I, my running joke with my friends is I will have as many kids as I can.
I would love to have a whole slew of 'em. But it is expensive and it's definitely something I think our, yeah. Oh no, and I'm not, and yeah, and I actually, I love the fact that people. That society is finally giving everybody the moment to take a pause and to fully say, is this something I really wanna do?
Because we all know that people are having kids who shouldn't have kids. So it's great when some, and I will say too, that the pe, everybody's freaking out. Not everybody, but people are freaking out about there aren't enough babies being born and the population, it's, maybe it's just gonna happen later because.
The teen pregnancy has gone down, so isn't that a good thing? Yeah. Everybody has their opinions and viewpoints, but there's always going to be some good to what other people think are bad and anyway, [00:20:00] and as much as I love like the take back of I figuring out who you are before you enter a relationship, I do think something that's very unique to the younger generations is like the gray area, like more like so many of.
Experiences I've had and my friends have had that you just exist and we're seeing each other and we like each other, but you're not actually my boyfriend or girlfriend and you're not my partner. But I don't want you to see anyone else. But also it's okay if we don't see each, like there's so many boundaries without boundaries and it makes it almost so difficult to understand.
My friend will be like, oh yeah, I'm seeing this guy but we're not boyfriend girlfriend, but we're exclusive and he's not allowed to see anyone. I'm like, so you're, you are. You just don't wanna call each other. Yeah, no, I loved where that went. One thing that, so we've actually spoken about this, but I would love anyone listening to hear basically like what we've talked about before in terms of work and the workplace and what it's like to work [00:21:00] with different generations, especially.
The misconceptions of Gen Z. Gen Z keeps coming up a lot in the world right now on LinkedIn, for instance, and everybody's talking about, I can't connect to the Gen Zs, but I think younger millennials and all millennials really are also being put into this box as well. So can the two of you just talk about, first of all, I guess just the misconceptions that are being talked about with your generation, but then.
Anyone who is of an older generation, a boomer or a Gen X, who's working with someone from a younger generation, any advice that you can give them on how to connect to them more, that was a lot. So anything you wanna say as Gen Z? It's the label of, oh, lazy. Oh, they don't care. Oh, they're disconnected. They don't want that.
Like they're in and out. They don't do the extra work to get, get things done. I feel like that's [00:22:00] everything I've. Heard of, been told about myself from time to time by someone who maybe didn't like me or something, or who just wanted to generalize me with the rest of Gen Z, and I don't think that those things are.
Untrue. I think obviously every generation's gonna have someone like I, I've, I think I've said this before to you Meredith, of like older generations, like the hippies used to be like viewed as like the lazy ones, the people that couldn't get their lives together and all of that. But now like my generation looks at them and like so carefree and they did what they wanted and finding some inspiration from that lifestyle.
So I think it all just rebrands itself year after year. But with Gen ZI feel like. We crave community because we grew up in COVID and I feel like that's very underrated for most older generations to understand the impact of COVID. I finished college like the last time, like the senior year, the Hurrahs, like I didn't get any of that.
So now I seek it in different formats in my [00:23:00] adult life I'm building that. So I think in the workplace when it comes to like cross generational, like intentional time with each other, but also understanding that like. For Gen Z work is in our entire lives because we crave that community in certain ways.
Like we wanna log off at five or whenever the job is done for the day and go have hobbies, build friendships outside of work, and it's a means to an end, not a ends to the means. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that and I love that in a weird way. Anyone who is any generation can understand wanting to stop at five.
But yet everyone has this assumption that because we're in this remote online world, that everyone is constantly connected and they, thus they should be. Maybe, I don't know if that's true or not too, but Oh my gosh, gen Zs wanna stop at five. I, that's not true. There's no way. It's this assumption that you wouldn't want to, [00:24:00] because you're always.
Right. You're always on your phones. Yeah. Yeah. There's also no packing up and leaving work. We're in this remote world that most of us live in now. Like even if I'm not fully online, like I can access certain ideas or related to work that like on my personal phone, on social media, on all that stuff. All right.
What about you, Billy? I think as a millennial, it's similar to what Tara was saying about the whole Gen Z thing. People often stereotype us as being lazy, as being like, the one thing I hear a lot is you all want a participation trophy. 'cause like your parents told you could be anything. And I see where that comes from, but at the same time.
People have to realize, like we all watched like 2000, like our, the culmination of our childhood was like watching nine 11 on tv. And forgive me if that made us a little jaded and not like wanting to put our life into [00:25:00] our job. So I think. It's a bit also of just wanting to have a work-life balance and realizing that there are different priorities and that's okay.
And I would also say it's not like it used to be where you're at a job for 40 years and then you're making all this money and you can buy a house on whatever you're getting paid like that model's dead, really. So I think we're often maligned the same way that Gen Z is. Yeah, very similar. Pretty much. I think so.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And for the most part, it depends obviously where, where everyone falls within the generation. But being raised by Gen Xers and boomers, depending obviously, but is interesting too because of how, like how I was raised and how boomers were raised and older Gen Xers as well. 'cause I'm smack dab in the middle basically of Gen X.
But a lot of millennials [00:26:00] especially are saying, and actually your age range too. I think Tara, I'm hearing people saying, yeah, we were raised being able to just go be gone and our parents don't see us until it's dark. But yet we raised our kids as helicopter parents and, and so it's really fascinating to me that how that really shifted in a really huge way of.
How older generations were parented, but then completely shifting how they parent as well. Have you experienced that in your own parents? Like how were you parented basically? Was it the free style? Do whatever you want and come back when it's dark or very much helicopter parents, would you? I think for me it was a combo of both.
Like I remember just like running around the woods when I was little and like going out and like playing in the dirt [00:27:00] and all this stuff, and like being with my friends and playing out in the street, but. I think where the helicoptering came in is I was always really interested in traveling and I wanted to go to like different countries and I think to my parents that was completely out of the realm of their comfort zone.
And I don't know where, like, how I became so different from that. I, it just, I joined this group when I was little and they wanted to take me to Haiti, like it was this like educational group about Haiti and I wrote to them like I saw them paper. I know. I was like, I wanna go to Haiti with you. And they took me and my parents flipped out, but I begged them.
I was like, please let me go to Haiti. Wait, how old were you? I was like 15. Oh my God. So I wasn't like young, but I was, I was a teenager, young teenager, not 18 or, yeah, that was interesting. And Billy, were, are [00:28:00] you also the age where when you came, got out of college is when. Like everything was, everything tanked and everyone was living with their parents.
Was were you that age or is that, yeah, I think it was starting to happen then. I'm not sure how aware of it. I was like, I heard of it and I was like, theoretically, oh, like things are getting bad for some people, but it didn't quite hit me. Luckily, I always had a job or whatever, but yeah, I think it was right around that time.
Yeah. Like when was it? 2008. Yeah. Yeah. Nine. But I, 'cause I just remember hearing so many stories of people, especially the ones where they paid so much money for college, like being a lawyer and being a doc or certain things and then they can't get a job and Yeah. And so I always wondered too, how much that affected your generation too.
Well, yeah, I have friends that went on to become like doctors and things like that, lawyers, and I [00:29:00] think a lot of people assume, oh, like you're gonna be a lawyer, you're gonna be a doctor, you're gonna be like loaded all of a sudden and they discount like how much debt you're in and like how much like how hard it is to really like to.
Establish yourself even when you do have a job, like it takes years to build up to the point where you're comfortable. I do hear stories like that. Yeah. And making money. It's not like when you're a lawyer. Yeah. When you graduate out of law school, you're making a ton of money. You're like a Yeah. They don't give you the good cases until you've been there for 40 years.
Yeah. Until your name's on the door. Right? Seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, I was just always been curious. About that too. And what about you, Tara? About how you, your parents raised you? Yeah, I was like really trying to think about it after you asked who Billy was talking. I think I was somewhere in between the helicopter, but could do what I want.
I had a really good relationship with. My parents growing up, I was also, not to brag, I was a good kid. Like I [00:30:00] didn't seek out trouble. I was very like straight and narrow. I just liked being with my friends. I liked being involved in activities. I was very scheduled. I played softball, I did extracurriculars.
Like I was just like, I kept my head out of trouble. So I think that's where my really good relationship with them came from. They let me do things. As freely as they, I wanted within reason with within bounds and like obviously checking in from time to time. So I feel like that's how I. Gained their trust.
But I also, my relationship with my parents is also different because I lost a parent at a young age. I was only 14 when I lost my dad, which was eighth grade, and which is such a critical time of becoming a teenager and relying on your parents and questioning does this boy like me? I hate school. My friends don't like me.
Like all the things that come with everything that comes with high school. I didn't have my dad there for it, which made me and my mom's relationship really strong. But it also mean I had to grow up really [00:31:00] fast. I really did, and it, I have no resentment towards it. I love the person that I've turned out to be, but it definitely had changed.
Who I was as a teenager. I wasn't a normal teenager in the sense of mom and dad want me to do this. I, my life dramatically changed the dynamic that my family had and how I felt like I needed to contribute to my family so that we could all move through our grief without having my dad around. So I feel like I'm a little bit of an odd duck in the, especially in the Gen Z era of the helicopter parent of it all.
Like losing my dad by suicide also made me really anxious about. My mom, and she's the only parent I have and I'm only 14, and now I'm worried about her getting older. And then come college. My mom got diagnosed with cancer and thankfully she beat it. She's still with us today. She's still my best friend, but that also my.
Child to parent soon became child being the parent at times at a young age and before I even left the [00:32:00] education system. There's just a different dynamic in my household growing up of who was checking in on who and when things were Mom was mom, where when Tara needed to also help with picking out groceries and cooking dinner because she was working extra 'cause she was a single parent and what that looked like for our family.
So. I don't know if I have the classic Gen Z answer, but I love the life that I have and I'm grateful in many ways that I feel more mature than most of my generation. I think it has helped me in the workplace a ton, and I think that's just the part about losing a parent at a young age like I I had.
There's no other, like when people are like, how do you do it? There is no other option. I just did what I did, but I'm grateful for how it shaped me and that I'm still who I am. I remember when in your interviews, just thinking, oh, she's so much more mature than I, I would think looking at the year she graduated college, it was instant really.
When we both talked to her, we were like, she's so put together. [00:33:00] Yeah. Better than me. Yeah, you were like one of the hardest working people I've ever met, Tara. So it really does come through half the time I'm like, Hey, like where's this file that I should also have access to? And here it's So, you've saved my ass on many occasions.
Capricorns Unite Capricorns unit. Yes, absolutely. There you go. Yeah. Back to the kind of workplace part too, if there was a. Older generation person listening to this, who's working with millennials and Gen Zs, what would you say to them in terms of if they feel disconnected to their team, how should they maybe work on that, or how should they approach connecting with their employees or direct reports or team members, anybody?
I would say it's one thing to be professional and obviously professionality is important, but [00:34:00] don't be so professional that you can't connect to anyone on a human level. Because I think if you are connecting with someone, if you're just letting loose a little bit and you're relaxed and you're not being their friend, obviously, like you don't have to be friends with someone you work with, but just like talking to them as a human, I think the rest will follow.
So that's what I would say. Yeah, I agree with that. I also think it's a perspective approach in giving each generation grace and understanding that it's okay. Different mean doesn't mean bad. Like the way an older generation works and approaches the workplace and work lifestyle. Like I have to meet them 50% there.
I just need them to meet me 50% of where I'm at. And I think like a theory, I don't even know where I first read about it, but it often comes down to where does the respect come in. I think a lot of older generations are about earning your respect. You gotta earn your spot at the table where I think my generation, most millennials grew up with [00:35:00] you.
You deserve the seat. If you mess up, you're like, you almost start at a hundred with us and you get chipped down if things go bad, where in older generations you start at zero and you have to prove you're 100 and you earn that. And I think those approaches really impact the dynamic. And again, maybe we just meet each other at the middle of 50 50.
You know what, you're new. I'm gonna be cautiously optimistic about this, but I'm also gonna give you the grace to be like, you know what? You're here for a reason and I want you to do you. Yeah. And one thing that I would love for the two of you to talk about, because we talked about it before, and anyone who's listening, I would love for them to hear, and Tara, I believe you are the one who mentioned it, but I would love both of you to chime in if you want to, was the importance of no matter what type of work you're doing, whether it's at a bank or it's at a nonprofit, that what you're doing matters and what you're doing.
Connects to you in some [00:36:00] way. So can you talk about that a little bit, because I love that. I think everybody needs to hear this. It's such a common theme on people I talk to and my friends and how we approach our nine to fives and what that looks like from my friends, from my childhood. I, they all work at the Big four in New York City and I work at a nonprofit.
Our day-to-day look very different and they're often I'm approached with, oh, you work at a nonprofit that's so lucky. You do something meaningful. I do disagree with them, and I talk to a lot of people my age. If I, your job's important because you're contributing to the greater whole, whether that is you plugging away numbers so that you're helping a company file their taxes, that means something.
And if you don't have someone on your team to support you, and understanding that meaning, I think my generation can get lost of just being someone who clocks in, does things and then clocks out like they're. Meaning to all of what we do. And I think our generation really values knowing the meaning, like knowing [00:37:00] the larger perspective, not just, here's an assignment, do it.
Why should I do it? What does this contribute to our company? How does this help our mission? And again, whether that mission is auditing or if it's preventing suicide, both those things have a place in our society. So how are we feeling good about ourselves and in what we're spending majority of our week doing?
I think that's really important for us. And I think you mentioned too that people who have quit jobs because they just don't feel, is it that they don't feel connected? Is it the same along the same lines? Yeah. I think they've been approached with this mentality of don't ask why it like, like none of your business, like some of their upper level people have been like, I've asked you to, and this is just how the workplace goes.
And I think when. Like there, that's not just like a lack of understanding, like this connection and meaningfulness part, but also just again, back to that respect of as my mentor, as a leader, you should also be able to work on this holistic approach with me. What does that look [00:38:00] like? If this is what I need to produce the best quality.
Again, like that meaning of the middle I think sometimes is where it lacks in between generations and that's how. A lot of my generation, I don't think values the ladder as much as other generations. Like I can do a lateral move, but if that lateral move brings me to a company where that connection meaningfulness is larger and greater, then that lateral move means much more to me than staying somewhere and fighting my way up the ladder to be still under people that don't recognize me or what I value out of my nine to five.
Yeah. Love that. Billy, would you wanna add to that or. I would agree. I think you really phrased it well and it's like going back to what we were saying directly about what would you want to tell the other generations? It's okay if you are higher up at a position, it's your job as a leader, or what I would say is your job as a leader to create that meaning and then.
Make [00:39:00] sure that we understand it because I take the Buddhist perspective of everything's inherently meaningless. It's about how we define it, like we give it the meaning. So if you're higher up, like. Create that meaning, and like Tara's saying, don't just drop something on our desk and say Do it because I told you to.
That very like authoritarian kind of thing. Yeah. Because I said so screw you. No, and it's, you're not my parent. But that's what my parents used to say because I said so. Okay, well they're probably raised that way and then they're projecting it onto the workplace environment and like I'd be curious to see if there's a relation there that would be funny.
And then I think the other perspective of that is like though then like some older generations will hear someone like me say that and be like, you're being paid to do it. So just do it like at the end of the day, like it's a job. It's not a passion. And I think you can blend both. And I'm not saying like for every little thing that I've ever been asked at my work, I'm like, but why is this important?
Why should I do it? Meredith, I don't think you would've hired me or kept me for that long if I said why [00:40:00] to everything. But I think. In the larger grand scheme of everyone has a job description that follows suit. Like what do the bullet points actually translate to as a passion that can interweave and make your life happy at work.
So I'm not saying every single young person deserves an answer to a why there, there are dumb questions out there, but I do think to, if you're feeling disconnected with a different generation at work, I think that is a really good starting point of understanding. And opening up that conversation and see where it goes well in getting to know each other.
I think that is a huge thing that every supervisor should do. And I don't think every supervisor does really get to know the people on their team, and I think that goes across the board for everybody as being important. But I do feel with remote work and being on Zoom all the time, it gets lost a little bit.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You could talk about how, why I was [00:41:00] so great. No, I'm kidding. I was gonna, I was gonna lead into that and say the reason you were a great boss was because you never made me, and I am not gonna speak for Tara, but I'm sure she would agree. You never made us feel like we were beneath you or working for you.
You made us feel like we.
It was great. Like that's such a rare quality to find. Drastically in one direction or the other. Well, well, he stayed. Yeah. True. I also think it's intention, like you made intentional time. Especially I entered the workplace post COVID. I only know our company as a remote company where you both had the opportunity to be in person pre COVID, and I was the first hire on our team that was fully remote and joined as a fully remote person.
So a i, when I joined the team, I came in with a, I need to make an effort for this. I'm not gonna be the, I knew who I was and what I [00:42:00] needed outta my job, and that meant making connections and understanding who I was working with. We've all heard it now that we're five years deep into post COVID world, if there's no water cooler chats in a Zoom world, you log on, you're muted, and you wait for someone to finally get off mute and either start the conversation, but then it's a group conversation, and then you're not really building connections.
You're asking about the weather because it has to apply to all 10 people on the call. So I think you were really good about intentional time with each of us in smaller pockets. Whether that was just the three of us for a more internal meeting versus our larger team or like a all staff call, what those dynamics look like and recognizing that those dynamics are different and all have an important part of the puzzle, I think is really important when it comes to cross-generational management and just post COVID management.
Yeah. Yeah. Great. No, I'm so glad to hear that. Thanks. And I get a great job hiring once again because of you're [00:43:00] awesome and amazing. No, so thanks for all of that. I think that is all extremely helpful information for anyone listening, no matter what age and generation they are, honestly, because whether you're on one side or the other, I think all of that is extremely helpful.
So thank you for that. For sure. The next thing is just I would love to hear. What your dreams and aspirations are, really what's next for the two of you? Not that you have to act like no, but what, what is it that you would just love to do in five to 10 years? Where would you love to be or see yourself just doing, being, where do you live?
Just dreams. I, okay. I've been thinking about this a lot, especially over the past couple years, and I was always one of those, like New York or never people, and I say that as I'm in Philly now, but I'm realizing, I'm [00:44:00] realizing like I would love to just be somewhere close to nature. I'd love to be like surrounded by mountains.
I'd love to be able to drive to a farmer's market and go buy kale and make borscht from my garden. It sounds. So cool. And I think as humans now, we like miss out on so much of what, not to sound all like granola, but what we were made to do, so. I don't know. I think that'd be cool. Like out in Utah or something, or the, what are the, the Smoky Mountains, somewhere like that.
Nice. No, and that's not granola. That's totally, like you said, it's human. It's being a human grow. Grow your beets i'll. It really loves Beed for everyone. No, and you can, I think you should come visit me 'cause that's my life. I live walking distance from a farmer's market. It's a long walk, but we're all walkers here.
We could do it, but it's a. Four minute drive from a farmer's market. That's awesome. I have redwood trees and hills all around me [00:45:00] and it's pretty, I think you should visit me, both of you. I would love to. I'm just trying to get you to visit me anyways, but I love that for you, Billy, so thanks for sharing.
Tara, what about you? I have so many dreams. I, I, but I don't, I honestly, I feel like it may be a little bit different. I don't dream in years. I really, I've always been this way where I don't define 'cause I honestly, I think most times it leads to disappointment. A dream can be a dream and a wonderful thing, but I don't need to put a, an expiration date on that dream or diminish it once I finally achieve it if it wasn't the desired timeline.
So I don't, maybe not have the best answer for five or 10 years, but, oh, like whatever. Looking down the road of what I would love for my life to have one day. Professionally would love to stay in the nonprofit space. I find a lot of joy in the back to that community building side of things. I like the environment that this career lets me have, [00:46:00] but if I were to veer off like the dream job, it would be to own my own self-care cafe.
Cooking is like one of my most favorite parts of my day and my passions and being in the kitchen is definitely a happy place for me, and I just think that. A lot of what we have right now lacks that third space. We have our home space, and then we have a place where we could spend a ton of money. Like the idea of every time you walk outta your apartment, you're guaranteed a hundred dollars outta your pocket for any activity that you're doing, and creating more of a place where I ideally would love, like to have a cafe that would have cocktails at night, but then drinks all day and it was open at a very wide ranging hours.
But that had space for an art therapy class or for a therapist to rent out a room or two and have a space worth like clothing and things that just bring joy to everyone. If I had all the money in the world, that's what I would be creating with my life. And ideally it would come with a beach house.
That's the real dream. [00:47:00] Yeah. So you love the beach. You're a beach person. Love, love the beach. I definitely am beach over lake. I just, the ocean is my happy place. Yeah, and we need to talk one day, Tara, because we basically have the same idea. Business partners. I know. I'll bring the Porsche. We can add a podcast studio to the back of the cafe.
No, I, it's, you're saying all that, I'm going, oh my God. This is exactly what I've been, because I've also been thinking about doing something along those lines where like after school for teens, so having a place that after, especially high school, after school, they would go to and there would be sections that like are community based.
Put your phone away and you can read and study. But here, over here, you can have. Music and a record player, and so same kind of idea, but throughout the whole day and into the night, I was thinking the same thing like coffee and tea and to drink and, and mocktails and whatever. Anyway, thanks for that, Tara.
And [00:48:00] also Billy Tara mentioned beaches. Are you a mountain person? Because I love this question where it's like beaches, mountain, desert, or city. Which one would you be? You know what? I would have a condo in Rio de Janeiro where there are mountains at the beach. So perfect. Best of both worlds. Perfect.
Honestly, that's why I love Northern California, because it's all here. Yeah. I'm not got everything. Yeah. I'm not far from any of it. It's the perfect situation. 'cause there's a city, a beach and mountains. So I, but for me it's a lake though. I like Lake Tahoe. If I had a a, if I had a little condo in a city.
I don't care where, which city? 'cause I love New York City, so maybe I would have a condo in New York City and Brooklyn or something. This is, if I had tons of money, obviously I love playing this game. I, yeah. If I won the lottery, yeah. But I would have a little place in New York City, but I would love to just have a place in Lake [00:49:00] Tahoe that overlooks the lake.
So I'd be up, not on the lake, but I would want to be in the mountain area. And then seeing the lake front in a, with a gigantic window in a. Cabin like house. That's my dream. Yeah. Okay, perfect. Awesome. Thank you both. And so then I am sure you both know, I always like to end these with a couple of questions and then one that we, I always ask now we did the beach kind of mountain thing.
That was one of them in a way, but, but the one I love, which I'm sure you've heard, but is. If you walked into a theater that's playing your life on the screen right now, what would the audience be screaming at the screen or yelling at the screen and it's your life right now. They're watching you go through a day in your life.
I, two things like came to mind immediately. I feel like this year is the year of not being at home for me and [00:50:00] just traveling like social obligations. I, uh, went through my calendar from May to. At the end of September, I think I spent 30% of the time in the place that I actually pay for. So I think the group would probably be saying like, stay in bed, just relax a little.
I think I'm entering a season of life where I need to like hibernate a little and I had my fun and as much as I've loved that, I just think I need a little bit more self-care and. No is a full sentence. Or on the flip side, I love my routine even with that travel schedule that I just mentioned about not being home with time.
I am very regimented. So maybe they'd say take the chance, mix things up. I think those were the, those were like the two things that pop into my mind right away. Yeah. I love it that I think I would, in my case, they would say it's okay to let go. I think that's something that, it took me a really long time.
Not in any one specific way, but just like the older I've gotten, stop attaching to like emotions or [00:51:00] ideas. Like just let them rise and fall. And that's normal that they should do that. And I think it's something I struggled with, but it was something that kind of, I didn't learn till later. So I would say that.
It's a bad way. No, that's that's great. I love it. I love it. Let's go, Billy, let
I counteract them. Actually, we're going into winter, which is and fall and winter, which is perfect for that. Tara, it's perfect. Yes. I love, oh, oh, that's a question. I, what's your favorite season? Hmm. I love fall's like my favorite. That's why, that's what made me think of it, especially on the East Coast, to be honest.
Here, it's like whatever. But on the East coast, in New York, fall is just the crispness. The leaves changing. It's just Halloween. Ugh. Love it. All right, go ahead. Sorry. I like can't pick a season. [00:52:00] I know that's like the worst answer or person to be, but I find so much joy in the changes. Like I, I could never live in a place where the seasons didn't happen.
Like I really, I think a lot of what I am. Enjoy immediate about my routine is that the seasons naturally make me change my schedule and my habits. I think if I like had to, I would say fall, just because I feel like September here on the East coast, like you can still be down the shore and sitting on the beach and enjoying those last warm days where it's still cool at night.
But then I also love like the cold, crisp, like 60 degrees days where you're finally able to put on a sweatshirt and not be sweating. The one downfall for me with fall is Halloween. I don't like Halloween. I am, I'm much more Thanksgiving and Christmas type of girl I am. Love my Christmas time. Oh yeah. I totally forgot that you didn't like Halloween.
I did know that, but yeah. But I do know that you are Christmas. Big time. Yeah. Living, growing up with a nut allergy. Halloween, automatically demotes when [00:53:00] you can't enjoy the fruits of trick or treating for the most part. Oh yeah, the trick. Tara, come on, get in the spirit. I only got treats because I was sweet.
Okay, and what about you, Billy? It's definitely fall. This is my absolute favorite time of year. I was walking like around the old city in Philly from it. It's just, everything's lit up. Everything's decorated. It has this creepiness to it, but like it's really pretty too. I love it. And the windows open. The air's coming in.
It's like chilly. Yeah, it's the best. And, but in that. Yeah, the crisp, fresh air, it's just different where, because some people will say, spring is great, but I'm like, no. I like am sneezing and.
Yeah. I'm like, I, because I love the windows open, but then I wake up with like my eyes all puffed up, like I have like pink eye or something. So no, spring for me is not, it's pretty [00:54:00] and all, but it's fall for me for sure, for, for that same crisp coolness, because I know the coolness happens in spring as well, the beginning part of it at least.
But you don't want the coolness, like you want the warmth when spring comes around, like you're like, it's not warm enough. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, Terry, you couldn't live in California then. 'cause No, the whole season thing just does not it. It changes, but it's not the same. Not the same at all. I love a good snowstorm.
I am definitely a snow girl. Okay. Do you know That is something people think I'm wild and weird, but I actually miss. The snow, and that's probably why I would love to live in Tahoe because at least snow would arrive and that would be a big part. But people are like, you're nuts. And I said, no, I don't miss the humidity in the summer.
You can have that take it. What I do miss is actually the winter. And it sounds really weird to people, but I totally miss that for, I love a good snowstorm [00:55:00] and being inside in the snowstorm, walking it, come down glittering, Ugh. Love it. Love it. And waking up in the morning and seeing that it snowed all night.
Yeah, it's so great. The best, and you don't, and the two of you don't have kids, but when you have a kid too and they are like, oh, and it's just so cool. Yeah. They love that. Inherently there's magic in snow. I can't explain it, but it's just a fact. Yeah. Frosty came from someone's imagination because there's magic.
Yeah, magic. Okay. Then the final question is, the one I ask in all of them is if you could start or stop or both. Something that brings you closer to your most authentic self, what would it be? That's a tough one. That's a stumper stump. I think for me, I wanna stop having expectations about how things should be, and this kind of goes back to what you were saying, Tara.[00:56:00]
I think we live in these fantasy templates from like movies and from. What we think other people are doing instead of just being present and letting life unfold the way it's unfolding. So it's, I don't know, I dunno if I'm making sense with you. No, you are. Like, just set that, that expectation and trying to find joy for the sake of finding joy rather than up, like attaching it to something else.
That's what I would say. That's great. That was a good one. Yeah. I, what came to mind, and I don't know if it fully answers the question, but I think I, I quarter to that crisis, the 26th be my 27th birthday is coming up in a few months and I feel like it's the first birthday where I'm like. Oh wow. When I was young and someone said they were 27, like that was a real person.
That was like someone who I thought when I was in like a child [00:57:00] and someone said they were 27, I was like, oh, like you have a life like you. You got it together. And I, not that it's like a crisis at all, but I think I'm a reevaluating how I spend my time. For and with others? I think I am to my core, a people pleaser because I love community and I think I have a little bit of selflessness of always putting others first, and I just really wanna, in this next season of life, start to take a pause and be like, does it fill my cup?
And does it fill my cup first and help others? Not just, oh, it helps others. So inherently I should feel good about it. I think readjusting my mentality. Of how I spend my time with the people around me and being intentional about it and not just showing up. Yeah. And having it be something that you, that's for you as well, right?
Yeah. That you connect and aligns with who you are instead of only being about other people. Yeah. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. This age range of, you're in your young [00:58:00] twenties, you figure out who you are, what you wanna be, like that, that also taking on a lot. Okay, then I feel like I need to say yes to everything.
'cause everything's an opportunity to learn who I am. But at some point, like I feel like I'm now at this turning point of, okay, I'm starting to get better, understand who I am, and I need to start saying yes or no more intentional about those opportunities. No, that's great. And that does make sense with the question, but it's something to start doing, so, yes.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, great. Is there anything else the two of you would wanna say? If not, it's fine. Happy to be here. Yeah. I love talking to you guys. I know it's always a to hang out and shoot the shit always. Yeah. No, I love it. Thank you both so much for doing this and I love you both so much. I'm so glad you're in my life and still in my life, even after work, that it's no longer a work relationship, that [00:59:00] we're friends and continue to be friends.
So thank you both so much for being here and God bless cross generational friendships because we learn a lot from each other. Yes. Next one, zoom. Yeah.