Welcome to the Average 90s Gal Podcast. Join me as I share my own journeys through life, how I got and continue to get through them, as well as real stories from real people in this crazy world. Let's get through it together.
Welcome to part two of my conversation with Gina. I hope you will enjoy this episode. We discuss ADHD, mental health conditions, as well as suicidal ideation and suicide loss.
There are links to resources and support in the show notes if you or someone you know may need them. I hope you enjoy this episode and thank you so much for listening. What has this whole journey been for you? I mean, how have you... Triggering.
I mean, it's been a lot for me and my own mental health has been, um, I've struggled with. I've, um, and it's, you know, it's something in my family, um, that I do have a different perspective. Like I, my dad struggled with it, but I also think if I'm looking at myself now, I really feel like I may have ADHD myself.
Undiagnosed as an adult, and it shows very differently. Like what I've been learning, it shows very differently in women and girl females. But when I'm looking at organizational things, like not completion of tasks, things that I have lists going that I can, I can be organized.
I'm so organized in my classroom and my home, not so much because I can, I can mask it for a certain time in my classroom and then it all lets loose when I come home. I'm looking at parallels between my kids, between my dad, between me. And I wonder if my dad was neurodivergent as well, because I'm feeling like our mental health is a by-product of that, that was not met.
Are those needs as being ADHD or even autistic? I'm wondering, you see brilliance in autistic people, you know, like Einstein, for instance, if they're, you know, Beethoven, Da Vinci, these people that were outcasts of society, but brilliant in certain niches. They named three different people in three different, you know, art, music, science. But specifically in those three issues, science, like my dad musically was brilliant.
Brilliant. David has touches of that with his music that he's picking up these, the music that he hears and feels, and then can hear something and then replicate it without being taught it, right? Like he teaches himself it. So I'm kind of in this curious place for myself, exploration.
Do I really, am I really struggled just with anxiety or is my anxiety a by-product of neurodivergence? And wondering if that was what my dad, my dad not being understood for so long. And then it got, it manifested into his deep depression where then the symptoms, so my anxiety, my theory is my anxiety is maybe a symptom of my neurodivergence. So I'm treating the symptom and not looking at the root cause.
Because I'm seeing a pattern specifically with my dad, to me, even my sisters, to now my own kids. Cameron, I think is more neurotypical. Definitely not as, as on the spectrum, not spectrumy as far as autistic, but I definitely see some ADHD signs for him.
We've had him tested. And as far as like a medical diagnosis, he's right on the border and they won't diagnose him. To me, it doesn't mean that he's not there and we're, you know, we're not going to approach.
And he's 10, right. Right. Right.
Things, hormones can kick in. Exactly. Exactly.
Right. So it might, like we saw that with David, it came, it was more pronounced when he started getting through puberty and he wasn't able to mask as much. But so for me, like mental health has always been in the forefront of my head because of my dad and what my dad went through.
And then me experiencing what I thought was anxiety through my life, treating anxiety and to where I am now, looking how it's manifesting with my own kids and really feeling like my, yes, I struggle with anxiety, but if like, am I, are we treating the symptom rather than the cause? And like really exploring, trying to figure out if maybe I am more neurodivergent, more ADHD. I'm not, I don't, as far as looking at myself, I don't feel like I have autistic traits, but definitely ADHD. I can, I can connect with on certain levels.
And like I said, maybe, so I'm in that exploration phase right now, but I have to say it's been an emotional rollercoaster ride to get to where I am now. Days of emotional crying, of the worry, the trigger of my son expressing suicidal ideation, self-harm. I mean, that must be as a parent.
The trigger and learning to like, and this is such a fine line, but my, the projection, what I project out to my kids, they feed off of specifically David, very intuitive, very feeds off of a lot. He knows when he says, and now I'm getting to the point where I can see the intuition, like the, the little idiosyncrasies of him, like, is he being serious or is he doing this? Cause he needs a reaction. Like he needs a dopamine hit.
He needs a reaction from me. David's very big on needing, like he, and it's not a conscious thing. It's a neuro it's driven by his nervous system, but it's like his nervous system needs a reaction.
So he'll do things to specifically get a reaction. And when I couldn't control my initial reactions, when he was expressing suicide and express it and showing self-harm and putting a knife to his throat in front of Camry, like, you know, like those things, I could not control my reaction. Of course not.
But those also then laid the foundation for him feeding off. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I had to do a lot of work on knowing what he's saying is going, it's triggering me and I have to be able to not project it and deal with it, not in front of him. And that has been really hard. I was just going to say that must be extremely difficult.
It's really hard to do, especially when it's something so personal and so traumatic that I've had to experience. I already know the end result. I know I've experienced it.
Yeah. And then not wanting that same path for my son or how it play out, you know, and no, that must bring it's really hard. And like you said, emotion, like just so many emotions in addition to mental health things.
I mean, the anxiety in collaboration with the must be really, really tough. It's really hard. Yeah.
Really hard. Yeah. And really working hard on like, self-care, being okay, being vulnerable, but self-care.
I'm not, I'm a people pleaser. I've always been a people pleaser and coming to that point where it's like, I can take care of someone so much without taking care of myself. And at some point I have like, there has to be a balance, right? Like I do get pleasure and, and I do like to help other people.
That is, that brings me joy. And I like doing that. I'm not for anything just to see them happy and to help someone.
I mean, that's why I'm a teacher, right? Like, you know, that is part of who I am, but at the same time, I have to then give that to myself too. And that's a lesson that's taken me a long, long lesson to learn. Yeah.
You know, like, you know, really, I can't, I cannot be the mom, the wife, the teacher that I want to be if I am not taking care of myself. Yeah. I think that's something every mother needs to hear.
Well, I should say parent, but it's such a mother trait that we forget about who we are. And then can I add menopause on top of that? Oh my God. Right.
Seriously. It's like, you know, really? So yeah, I, you know, cause like, I mean, paramenopause and menopause, you know, it's like the struggle is real. It's really real.
And so when you're dealing with anything in life, right. And then you're not taking care of yourself and you add menopause to it. Right.
I mean, it's just like the storm. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
So you have mentioned your dad a couple of times. Are you comfortable talking about your dad? And so, I mean, I knew your dad and I wouldn't even mention that we went to high school together. I mean, I have a feeling everyone figured that out by now, but he was, he was the best.
And so, so I obviously know he died by suicide. Right. And how long ago was it now? We're coming up on 25 years.
Oh my goodness. Yeah. Really? Five years.
How has it been that long? I know. I can't, it's sometimes, you know, it's so weird how time works because sometimes it feels like it was forever ago. And then sometimes it feels like it was just like literally just yesterday, you know, like, yeah.
Because when those emotions of missing him come up still and, or facing something and go, damn it dad, why aren't you here to help me through this? Those kinds of, it's like it, it's like it happened yesterday, but then there's times where you go on and it's like, wow, I know we're coming on 25 years. Yeah. That seems like such a long time ago, but then once again, in the grand scheme of things, it really isn't.
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
And so, you know, I've also lost people to suicide as well. Obviously not a parent, losing a parent in any way is, you know, it, but to suicide as well, especially, and especially 25 years ago, you wouldn't, once again, time is so strange, but 25 years ago, suicide was still, there was, you know, today it's very different that luckily it's very different, but stigma was around then. What was it, what was it like for you and your family? And I guess I should say that's a very open question.
Sorry. No, that's okay. But either what worked or what didn't work in terms of when you have that type of loss, and I'm thinking of this for anyone listening who has lost someone to suicide or know someone who has, right.
What either worked or didn't work at, you know, in terms of how you personally or, and maybe the family dealt with it. I think we all dealt with it differently. And, and I just think being okay with help, it's, there's no right way to deal with it.
Right. Like, and just being there for that person for however that person needs in that moment. For my mom, because she's the older generation, it was her husband.
It was very, I think a sense of shame, like she was embarrassed to admit, and she would not share openly with a lot of people how my dad died of suicide. She's much more open with it now and has worked through that a lot. But initially it was, it was really hard for my mom.
I'm very different and I'm more like my dad in the fact that I'm more open. I can't hold, if I hold onto emotions, it just eats me up and I have to release it. And so I, I reached out to my dad's counselor, in fact, his therapist and said, I know there's client patient, the confidentiality issue.
Does that still apply? Even though my dad, because I needed to understand I, I needed to, I needed information for me. Sometimes like my mom is more like what I don't know is better for me. No, I need the information so that I can have the terms with it.
And I felt like I needed to know more. And so for me, it was healing to talk. I went to several sessions with his therapist and then we actually like after a few therapists appointments that I had personally with her, I asked my mom and my sisters if they would like to meet with her.
Because it was very healing for me because when someone dies from suicide, you just don't know. I mean, he did leave a note, but it wasn't specific. It was very, it was quotes from his musicals that he, you know, so it was very symbolic, but it wasn't, it didn't provide a lot of information.
So it really helped me to come to terms with it, that it was my dad's mental illness. My dad did not want to die. He wanted to live and he felt like he could not live in the body he was given.
And it was too painful for him. He couldn't be the person he wanted to be. He couldn't be the husband, the dad, he couldn't work.
He was not living. And by talking to his therapist, I was able to come to terms with that. The reassurance from her, like she would tell us, like he would bring, he would take, I wouldn't know this otherwise, right? He would take pictures off of our wall at the house, like his wedding pictures or pictures of us as kids.
And he'd bring them to his sessions with her to show her. And she said, his biggest pride was his family, you know? And so, you know, she's like, that's when he lit up in our sessions. When he talked about his family, he didn't want to talk about the demons he had, and that had nothing to do with us.
No, it was his mental health. And hearing that helped me. Yeah.
You know what I mean? Like that helped me work through it. And you'll never, I never, you're never going to come to terms with it completely. Like, I still miss him dearly.
But it also gave me an appreciation for what he went through, in that it almost feels selfish to me to want him here, not being able to live the way he could live a happy life. Like, do I want him here suffering the way he was suffering? Yeah. Or do I want my dad, the dad that I remember as a kid growing up, and, you know, that's who I would want to be here.
You know, I don't want him. So it's that whole, it's so hard to be okay with, you know, that there is a level of acceptance for like, an understanding. Like, I can see why that would, you know, he must have, he had to have been in tremendous amount of mental pain for him to go to those meetings.
Because knowing what I know from his therapist, I mean, his family was his life. Yeah, yeah. And we felt that from my dad.
We knew that from my dad. Everyone knew that. Everyone knew that from your dad.
Yeah. You know, I could walk into your house and, you know, felt that from your dad. Right.
You know, I knew my dad loved me. But then, and I knew he cherished us and his family was his everything. But getting that reassurance then from his therapist, solidified that.
It's an amazing thing that you did that, I have to say, because, so I mean, you know this, but this is for anyone listening, that I worked in suicide prevention for almost 20 years. And it is the, you know, the why is what really eats at people. And the fact that you actually went to someone and that she did meet with you too, right, you know, it's really amazing, right? Because a lot of times people will just sit with the guilt and sit with the why for so long that it takes over and that the grief sits for so long because of that.
And so I think it's amazing that you did that because you also basically gave such a wonderful, and I don't think description's the word, but definition of what someone who's going through having suicidal thoughts and someone who dies by suicide is that they don't actually want to die. Exactly. Because, and one of the worst things that whenever I hear it, I always, even if I'm like at a bar and it's a stranger, I don't care.
If I hear anyone say that it's selfish, I stop this person and I go, actually, it's like a teaching moment where no, it's not, they're not doing it because, you know, they're being selfish. They're actually either thinking about the people they love and thinking their, their family's better off or they can, they're, they cannot be within their own body and their own brain anymore. They just have to get rid of the pain.
It's not, they're not living. They're not living. They're not living.
Yeah. And that they, but I just, I'm so glad that you said that and that you, you knew that too, because I think that is something that, you know, it's already such a difficult loss. Yeah.
Understanding that it was not a selfish act is extremely important. And it helped me, like my mom went through a very, and I know that's part of grief, right? The anger, the anger pain. And there are moments where I have, like, like I said, like, damn it, dad, you should be here for this.
Yeah. And I could talk to you or, you know, on the birth of my kids or, you know, all of those things that you're like, you should be here for that. But they're brief.
I didn't go through the, the anger like my mom did. I think because I did have that understanding and I really truly did not feel like it was selfish. Also, I feel like my dad and I are very similar as far as the type of people that we are.
And so I feel like, I remember like we would, you know, have family conversations and my dad would try to explain something and my mom and my sisters were not understanding it. I'm like, what he's trying to say is, you know, like, I would understand, you know, like I felt like my dad and I had that connection, you know what I mean? Like I could understand what he was trying to say, where they were not, you can interpret like, you know, so I feel like that probably helped me too. But there's also that, just that whatever it is about me, that if I cannot sit with even happy emotions, you know, like I have to get it out.
Like I have to share it, you know what I mean? Like it eats up in me and I can't sit with it. Like, I do not know how I, honestly, people that, that don't, that just sit with their emotions and don't do anything about it. I don't know how, I honestly don't know how.
For me, it's like, no, no, no. What can I do? Like, I'm always in any situation. I'm like, they're like, how did you know to do that? I'm like, I don't know how I, I just, I just ask questions and I just, yeah.
You've got to get it out. I've got to get it out. Why? I don't, I need to understand, you know? Yeah.
No, that's a fantastic trait to have because that's why therapy is so important. Right. Because people need, sometimes need to get it forced out of them.
Exactly. Because it is just ripping them apart inside. Right.
And it's eating them whole. Right. Yeah.
Right. Because everyone really needs to do that. Right.
Right. And it's so funny because, you know, David is very similar. Like, David cannot keep a secret.
Like it's, it's a good thing. And sometimes it's like, I really don't know if I wanted to know that David. Very familiar.
I'm like, I'm your mom. I'm glad you think of me as your friend, but yeah, exactly. Your mom.
So maybe filter that out a little bit. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's, you know, like, but it's the similar with him. Like, you know, like he cannot. Yeah.
Keep it in. Keep it in, which I think is good for him. Like, and something that, that has helped me from his point for what he deals with when he has suicidal ideation or self harming.
You know, one of the things his counselor has said to me is that I, I know you're concerned. I know your background. And I, and he said, but the fact that he's talking to you about it is really good.
Yeah. Because I'd be more concerned if he wasn't exactly. You know, and that's true because people that actually do follow through with suicide usually don't do not.
No. And that's actually, here's another great teaching moment for anyone listening. Yes.
That asking someone if they're thinking about suicide is the best thing you could do. Right. And it's doesn't put it in their head because I've already thought about exactly.
And so actually asking them and getting them to talk about it is the best thing you could possibly do. And one of the things we've struggled with the David was like, he would talk to us about it, but then he wouldn't talk to his therapist about it. And he, because he was scared that they would have to commit it.
And we've had to talk about like, actually, David, as long as you're not in the act of doing, you're not physically doing something to harm yourself. The doctor's not going to, because they want you to talk. Exactly.
We want, we have to get this out. And for David, there is a level of that, because of the autism, he has a hard time expressing. He, when he does talk about suicide, it's because he, it's almost like he's trying to communicate the severity of what he's experiencing.
And yeah, not necessarily, not necessarily that he wants to die. But like that, that's how I want to let you know that that's how he's telling you what level, like from one to 10, basically. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Which, so I've learned a lot because of my dad too, you know, like I've, um, and I've also learned a lot because of David, like David, my son, David teaching me, um, about all of this has kind of led me to like what I've taught my exploration of the mental health.
But even before all of that, like I remember when my dad was first officially diagnosed, I mean, I remember him struggling periodically throughout his life, but when he was officially diagnosed with depression, he took each of me and my sisters separately out to lunch and talk with us about it. And he said, I vividly remember this. Um, he said to us, I'm, I'm doing this because I want you to know this is like his mom's, his, like it's genetic, right? It's passed down.
And the more we learn about it, the more that it's out, I feel like my dad was trying to break the stigma. My dad didn't feel ever comfortable going to his parents about talking about the challenges and struggles he had. You know, not only that, not that generation, no, the baby boomers were not going to do that.
And so like, so he wanted that for like, that was his gift. I feel like to me. And I've really taken that because to heart, because it played out for my dad in a way that we did not want, obviously, but I feel like I know a lot more that I can help David, my son go down it.
And my, and Cameron too, if he ever experiences. Yeah. Oh, definitely.
You know, like helping them down to find a different path. Yeah. And having, you know, having teenage boys, teenagers in general, teenagers in general, but I, you know, cause boys it's pretty, it can be pretty like where the, the signs and symptoms look one way.
And, but really if you're a parent really noticing and paying attention, you know what those signs and symptoms are and how they could show up. And when you need to really intervene and say, Hey, we need to go to therapy or right. You know, whatever it is, you know, but where sometimes they could show as well, it's just a teenager being a teenager, you know, but, uh, and especially once again, in today's day and age with social media and all in the internet and all the things, well, and if there's some size on the rise, I mean, it's on the rise and it's, and it's the second leading cause of death between the ages 10 and just, um, I don't know if it's changed.
Actually. I haven't looked recently, but between the ages 10 and I think it was 34. Wow.
And that gap used to be much smaller. It used to be 15 and 30 something. Now it's 10 and it's the second leading cause of death.
And isn't it in the right in the United States and isn't it higher for male? Yes. And for, yeah. Yeah.
And unfortunately teen girls is on the rise. And once again, it's everything we've connected, we've spoken about, but, uh, but teen boys has always, it's always been higher in, um, I should say young men. Right.
Yeah. And then older men as well. Yeah.
How old was your dad? He was 53. Yeah. And I have to say another, it's very strange, surreal.
I don't know how to describe it, but I'm approaching the age. Oh yeah. You're about to have a birthday.
So yeah, you're, I'm going to be 51. So yeah, you're actually getting to the age that he was when he died. And it's very weird.
I can't, I don't know if I can like pinpoint the emotion or feeling yet. No. Yeah.
That would be strange reality. Yeah. You know, and it, it is interesting too, because when I think about the, our parents, when they were in their fifties and how I thought they were so old, and I'm looking at my same time, am I really 51? Like I feel like when we were in high school, looking at our parents, they seemed so old to us.
And now I'm like, wait, you know, I mean, I'm an older mom myself. Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, me too. Yeah.
You know, so like we're experiencing, like, I don't have kids. Well, David's technically in high school, but like, you know, I wasn't, I was out of college when my dad died at 53, you know, and I'm, I'm only two years away from that. I still have kids, like younger, younger kids.
That's right. So like, it's, you know, people are having, uh, yeah. Children later in life, you know? And we have, yeah.
I mean, it's just so interesting to look at. And we have friends who have kids that are in their like mid twenties, upper twenties, you know, so it's very strange. I guess a good thing is it keeps me young, right? Like, cause I have to, you know, I think that's it too.
Yeah. I know. Yeah.
So definitely just me on my toes, taking care of ourselves differently. We know now what our parents didn't know back then too, you know, but, uh, so just closing on like your dad, the story of your dad and everything, you shared a story around father's day that I just love. Can you share that story? Sure.
Um, so we've been having some house renovations happening. So in the process of that, we've been taking the opportunity to purge and go through everything. So one night I was going through, um, a box of like memorabilia and deciding what to keep and what not to keep.
And I come across like all these different things. And I came across this card from my dad and immediately the emotions came because it just came flooding because it brought back this memory that I had, which I hadn't thought about in many, many years. And so, um, I was in sixth grade and inquire and, um, this is parent was the choir teacher.
She was my, she was my second. And, um, and so for those of you, you know, listening, I am a brunette with curly hair, really curly hair, especially when I was younger, it's not as curly anymore. But, um, and like I said before, I'm like, you know, I'm short and stocky, you know, I'm not tall and thin.
Um, and so Mrs. Parent announces to everyone in choir that the musical that we're going to be doing that year was Cinderella. And the first thing, and there's a dancing part to it. And I was a dancer.
So the first thing I'm, I'm going to audition for Cinderella. That's what I was going to do. And I remember going home, telling my parents that I'm going to audition for Cinderella.
And I, like even in sixth grade, I mean, they were supportive, but I could tell like there was hesitancy, like, Oh, you know, like, because even growing up, like talk about stigma and stereotypes in that time, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, Cinderella was blonde and she was thin and she was tall and she wasn't, she wasn't what I looked like, you know? And I remember my dad saying to me, you know, don't be disappointed if you don't get the part, because, you know, it won't be because you're not talented. It will probably be because you don't fit the part that, you know, the image stereotype. I remember him saying that, but he, they did not discourage me.
And I remember I was in my room putting on Chicago, you're the inspiration and choreographing my dance that I was going to do for the audition. And so the day came and I was so nervous about it because I, I could say I can carry a tune, but singing is not my strong talent. It's like, you know, but I can carry a tune.
So, but so I remember auditioning and, um, and then the next day we found out the results and I got the part Cinderella. And I was so excited. I was just, I know that's the best feeling, right? You know, it would be the best.
Yeah. And so I ran home and I tell my parents and they were, I mean, I could, the shock of my mom's still see, but like, you know, they were very excited and happy for me. And so one of my parents had, you know, they divvied up their chores and my dad made our lunches.
So he, that night made up our lunches and I didn't know this, but when I went to school the next day and I opened up my lunch box, there's this little card and it said, congratulations on the front. And when you open it up, um, it says to my little Cinderella, Oh, I love you dad. Or like for me, I can't remember what was the exact wording, but it was about his little Cinderella.
And, um, I love you dad. And then just see that, like, first of all, seeing his writing, I haven't seen this writing in a long, long time, you know? And, um, and then to recall that memory, I just like literally burst, I was sobbing and my husband comes down. He's like, what's wrong, what's wrong.
And I'm like, I'm okay. It's just, you know, this, like, it just brought just an emotion, a whirlwind of emotions, like good memories and also sad, but like just always, like my dad was always my cheerleader and it's just like brought that back. Like I have that again, you know, like this, seeing that card, I had that moment again.
It was, I love that story. It was a neat experience to have. And then to be able to share it again.
Like I shared that moment with, I shared, I told, like, I'd never told my husband that story. When would that story come up? Right. Like, so I told my husband that, and then I told him, you know, my boys were like, mom, why are you crying? You know, like it didn't help the emotion.
Yeah. So then to share it again, like, I feel like I really do feel like my dad lives within my kids and we kind of keep them alive through stories and memories and experiences that he, you know, like Yosemite was our family place. And I do that with like camping, all these things that I feel like my dad did with us as a family that I feel like I get to do with my kids, like keeps his memory alive.
Yeah. Yeah. So important.
And even David even said to me, like a couple of weeks ago, he said, no, I never really, I never met grandpa David, but I feel like I know it like Yosemite, because like lots of stories come up about Yosemite and like, you know, my mom was there and like sharing stories about him and yeah, they feel like they do know him even though they never physically met him. Yeah. It's just, I feel a new thing.
Yeah. Which, and says a lot about what you and your family do to make sure that happens. I mean, that's really important.
Yeah. And you have photos of him and yeah. And you share all of that.
That's really great. Yeah. That's fantastic.
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I also just love that, that, you know, that you saved without even remembering that you saved that note and that it was around father's day that it and he always, there's always something and he always makes himself know.
Yes. Around father's day. I just love that.
Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah.
Yeah. So, well, yeah, so we're going to wrap up, but what I'm, unless, unless there's anything else. Yeah.
So what I'm going to start, I don't know if you ever watched, did you ever watch like inside the actor's studio or, okay. Well, he always ended it with like a few questions. I'm not going to ask those questions, but one thing I want to start doing with guests is just and end it with a few questions.
Um, so, and I think they're just going to kind of come to me. Eventually it'll be the same thing every time, you know, but, uh, but, uh, well, you mentioned Yosemite, so maybe this would be the answer, but I don't want to give you the answer before, but what's your favorite place in nature? Yeah. Yosemite has got to be.
Yeah. Um, although we're going to Hawaii on Tuesday and that might, that might make it on top of the list, but any specific spot in Yosemite that's your favorite? Um, well, yeah. And I would say it goes back to the memory of my dad, Chihuahua Meadows.
Um, uh, so the last trip I went on with my dad before he passed was backpacking trip and I had never gone on a backpacking trip and I was always scared to, and, um, he, he had done it. He and my mom had done it all so many times. And in fact, they had brought me when I was a baby backpacking.
And I don't remember, like I was young and I don't remember it, but I remember like all the stories and they talk about bears and stuff. And I would be so scared. And finally, like, I don't know, I must've been early twenties.
Yeah. I went out of college. So it was a couple of years before he passed, but, um, he said he wanted to go on a backpacking trip and I knew he was struggling mentally, you know, like mental health was really, he'd, he'd gotten diabetes.
So mental health with the diabetes, his medications weren't working as well and all that stuff. So anyway, I knew that it was an opportunity I wanted to jump on because he not, he wasn't always up to doing things like that. So we went, we hiked into Wallington Meadows, this backpacking trip, just he and I and two of my aunts, but it was, there was, I just remember he and I just having conversations.
Um, we ended up scattering some of his ashes. So that's like my favorite place. It's got some really fun memories.
Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah.
So if you could go anywhere in the world right now, where would it be? Oh, they're simple, but I think I would love to go on a safari in Africa. Um, I'm just really, I don't know. And just seeing a totally different culture.
Like I want to see the native indigenous cultures, um, and, and immerse myself in that. Yeah. Even India.
Like just, I want to go somewhere where there's just a completely, not a Western influence at all. Just to, you know, really immerse yourself into it. Yeah.
But I, I like, I want to do the gorilla track and the safari. I mean, those things I really want to do. Yeah.
I'd really love to do that. Oh, gorillas. It's fascinating to me, the science and the anthropology and all that.
Yeah. No, I, but I just want to just like hang out with gorillas. I don't know why I'm so, there's a, just a quick side story just because I love it so much.
I was at the Bronx zoo with Donovan when he was, Oh my goodness. Like two, three, maybe. And we went to the gorilla area and yeah, he must've been even younger than that.
Cause I was even carrying him at one point. But, um, and you know, you have the glass and we were looking through the glass and yeah, great. Great.
You see gorillas, but there's a section where when you leave that it's open area where the gorillas are still in as well. And so it's in the exit part. And there was this, um, mother, a few mother gorillas with their babies on their backs and stuff.
And one of them was sitting. And so I was holding Donovan and looking at them and pointing and stuff like that. Well, one of the mother gorillas picks up her baby and holds it and looks straight at me.
Like I have my baby too. It was the most amazing experience. Like I had this connection with this mother gorilla where she's like, Oh yeah, here's mine.
And she held it like the same way I was holding Donovan. I mean, it was amazing. It was, it's, it's something I'll never forget.
So this is why I, I just would love, I just have this thing about gorillas. I mean, we are related. We are really.
Yeah. Yeah. There's no denying.
Yeah. Honestly, like, I mean, besides the language piece, like they, you had a connection there because they have the brain power. Exactly.
No, they just can't, they can't verbalize it. So she just, she was said, Hey, you know, it was just, and we're both mothers and she was saying like, you're a mother. I'm a mother.
Yeah. It was really, it was fantastic. That's awesome.
Okay. What if you, if you won the lottery today, what would be the very first thing that comes to your head that you would spend, spend something on? I would think my own school to provide, to do exactly what I've been talking about throughout, like redevelop a public school system. That's more like the Sudbury private school that my son is getting, but for everyone.
Fantastic. I would use that instantly. Yeah.
That's great. So, yeah. So final one, especially cause this is kind of the tone of everything I talk about on the podcast and everything is what one thing would, do you, would you like to start doing or stop doing to get you back to your most authentic self back to who you are? And even if you are totally yourself now, is there anything? Yeah, it's dance.
I want to get that dancing, you know, and I haven't done it for years. I'm my true authentic self when I'm dancing and, you know, I've made excuses through the years of time and it's true. There's been a lot going on with, you know, David and navigating, you know, neurodivergence in our family.
And, and then also though the whole, my, the block of the body image and dancing the way my body is now and being okay with that. And I am close. I think I'm on the verge of being able to do that again, but that's like, that's what I want to do.
I've wanted to do it for a long time. Um, but I am my true authentic self when I am dancing and when dancing is in life, like I feel like I do it. Like I, I go to performances and I go watch dance.
Do you know what I mean? Like to keep it in my life, I do musicals at school and I teach, I choreographed. So I keep it that way, but it's still not a hundred percent authentic if, unless I'm doing it for me, you're dancing and I'm dancing for me, just for me, just for the pure joy of dancing. Right.
Like, yeah. Um, so, so what could be an action step you take towards that? That's a good question. Cause I, I'm really on the brink.
It's just, it's gotta be, it's something within myself that I'm not sure that's stopping me right now because I have the summer. I'm pretty okay. I found some studios that I I've got, you know, I've gone to the point of like looking, seeking out studios where I can wear a t-shirt and leggings.
I don't have to wear a leotard and tights like I did when I was, you know, yeah. So I can be comfortable. I think I took a step yesterday when I went to my friend's wig and stash party and I put on a wig that was completely out of my comfort zone and feeling comfortable in myself, you know, like just feeling comfortable in myself.
And it's not so much about what other people think. It's really just, just feeling comfortable with me, you know, like, yeah. Um, I really feel like I'm getting closer.
Um, but I also like part of me too, is when I, I know myself that if I push past my comfort zone too, sometimes then it pushes me back further. You know what I mean? Like, so I'm trying to find that balance of like pushing myself a little bit out of my comfort zone, but not too far out so that, yeah. Cause I want to continue doing it.
I want to stop, you know? Well, maybe even if it's dancing in your living room. Right. Well, I do do that all the time.
I think it's more about like. So do you really mean actually going to the studio? Yeah. Going and taking a professional class.
Yeah. That challenges me. Yeah.
As far as like, you know, skill level, but allows me to just. Be yourself and feel comfortable. Feel good.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, great.
Well, thanks for answering. Of course. And thank you so much for this conversation.
Yeah, this is great. No, this was great. So thank you so much for sharing your story and.
Of course. Being vulnerable and open and honest. Well, I'm excited that you're doing this podcast.
I can't wait to hear what other people say. And their stories too. Yeah.
There's going to be so many different people. It's going to be great. Well, thank you again.
You're welcome. You're welcome. And I can't wait to see you again.
Yeah.
